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Twitter, but without code

notrealtwitter.com

51–60 of 68 posts

Re: Twitter, but without code

#51
post #46

I'll wait until the site is responding faster/not erroring to be sure but if it's really as it appears, this is amazing. Attractive customizable design is one thing, but real logins, real graph relationships, real feeds, real filtering for mentions, user photo uploads, potentially real messaging, all without any coding would be (is?) really amazing and covers 99% of all the site creations any laymen could want. It do…

Except for the fact that it's barking up the wrong tree. This likely won't change anything. It'll just make a new programming market. Now, instead of people going "I don't want to learn to code, I'll just hire a developer." they'll go "I don't want to learn to write a website, I'll just hire a developer".

If someone doesn't want to dig in to building something for themselves they won't no matter how easy you make the tools. WYSIWYG editors have been around for decades but programmers still have a job. They've gone from writing crazy cobol to doing .net but they are still doing it.

Re: Twitter, but without code

#52
The side effect of such products (that I have to love day to day with) is that it really devaluates the work done by software developers when it needs to be done by someone of the trade. When a client comes with a feature request and I say "that'll be 10 days, sir", many scoff at the value and don't understand why, pointing at how easy and quick it is to do A or B in Z assisted development system, glossing over even the skin-deep details.

That said I am totally in favor of the "in 2020 most programmers won't be engineers, they'll be [whatever trade uses programming as a tool]". Empowering the users should be the number one goal of every system builder, whether it is via simpler systems (as seen on mobile), more accessible interfaces (from colorblind to sensory to kinetic disabilities), or powerful coding (R, NumPy, iPython, Matlab, Mathematica...) or non-coding (Hypercard...) environments.

Re: Twitter, but without code

#53
Finding a way to program computers to do what we want without requiring rare and expensive skills is probably one of the largest economic opportunities of the 21st century. Bear in mind that there are already plenty of people in other disciplines who are good at decomposing problems and designing processes. It is the syntax and structure of programming and the depth of its connection to the way the machine works that bars the door to their participation. Meanwhile the world needs more and better software every day, and the overall supply of people who are good at the way we do it now isn't growing at anything like a comparable rate.

I'm sure this is not the tool, but I'm also sure that when the tool comes along that busts this open most developers (including myself, in all likelihood) will fail to recognize what it can do and will mock its intentions, just because that's the way we humans work. So, in closing, I leave you with the lines of an old Scottish folk song:

If it wasn't for the weavers, what would ye do? Ye wouldn't have your clothes that's made of wool! Ye wouldn't have your coat of the black or the blue If it wasn't for the work of the weavers.

A confident bunch, those weavers :).

Re: Twitter, but without code

#55
post #48

>Because in 2020 most programmers won't be engineers. They will be doctors, teachers, farmers, executives... I do not like this narrative at all, and it's becoming pretty common. Do you imagine a doctor saying "Don't worry, in 2020 most physicians won't be doctors, they will be engineers, teachers, farmers, executives"?

I would love it more if it's doctors teachers farmers executives and engineers. Programming as a tool is apparent now. All these frameworks help people to easily realize their ideas. People can be more multi-disciplined than ever before.

Re: Twitter, but without code

#56
post #55
post #48

>Because in 2020 most programmers won't be engineers. They will be doctors, teachers, farmers, executives... I do not like this narrative at all, and it's becoming pretty common. Do you imagine a doctor saying "Don't worry, in 2020 most physicians won't be doctors, they will be engineers, teachers, farmers, executives"?

I would love it more if it's doctors teachers farmers executives and engineers. Programming as a tool is apparent now. All these frameworks help people to easily realize their ideas. People can be more multi-disciplined than ever before.

I understand, but the current situation of all software being shit is going to go even worse with this new approach.

Re: Twitter, but without code

#57
Regarding software engineering won't be done by software engineers in 5 years time:

There are engineers who seem to be focused on the mere plumbing behind applications: DBs, ORMs, web frameworks, REST, SOAP, you name it. When asked to implement a particular solution to a real world problem these developers tend to first argue about whether to use PostgreSQL, MySQL or WhateverDB without even trying to understand the actual problem first. I know this sounds very clichéd but quite a few developers seem to try very hard to live up to the cliché.

Believe it or not, in some areas this attitude is almost pervasive. I'd say it's the main reason why recruiting freelance developers mostly works by recruiters matching TLAs instead of developers pitching their services to clients directly (like design agencies do).

Anyway, this kind of developers might indeed have a hard time finding a job in 5 years but there will - save for a possible technological singularity - always be the need for people who can fathom a real problem and design a solution.

Re: Twitter, but without code

#58
post #13

So, it lets you prototype apps. That is awesome. Too bad all those engineers are going to be farmers by 2020 though. Because when your prototype gets popular, I doubt Bubble.is can handle all the things that actually make your app run at scale (the deployments, maintenance, database, etc management programming that is really what makes apps like Twitter run .. not just the tiny html/css/js stack that the client plays…

I think you're looking at this the wrong way.

Today, only about 20 million people[1] are building software for over 3 billion internet connected people[2] (and even more who can get access to software in other ways). That's only about 0.6% of users contributing to the rest. Tools like bubble.is are not replacing the very scarce resource of software engineers, they're just vastly expanding the bubble (har har) of potential developers.

The world will always need people (or at least creative robotics) capable of designing and building hardware as well as the software that interfaces with that hardware. But the amount of resources spent on those critical systems will be minuscule compared to the resources spent building very custom things on top of it.

It's sort of like how you may be able to build your own computer at home with pre-made components and plug it into the wall and have it start up, without having to know how to generate the electricity required to run it, or how to make the hardware components.

In 2020 farmers may very well be building their own application, and if that is the case then most likely the number of people using these "WYSIWYG" tools will outnumber the kind of software engineers we see today. I personally think 2020 is a bit optimistic, but it's clearly the direction in which we're going.

[1] http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/european-technology/there-a... [2] http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Re: Twitter, but without code

#59
The idea of lowering the learning curve for website development has fascinated me for the past 10-ish years during my employment in the content management system industry. Every once in a while the idea that a tool can replace a developer surfaces, energizes a few people, and then falls flat for one reason or another. Yet it always resurfaces, likely due to the revolutionary nature of a successful solution.

The most common reason for failure I've seen seems to stem from the idea that a website requires a developer due to a website requiring massive amounts of meticulously written text in an esoteric language; by replacing this text with a graphical interface, a website no longer requires a developer who understands how to write this text. Experience leads me to believe a developer serves a much different purpose in building websites.

Consider applying this logic to another problem, such as writing. If one builds a tool allowing non-writers to drag correctly spelled words and punctuation onto a page, then a non-writer now has the ability to write gripping novels, impactful research papers, and influential editorials -- and they can do this without knowing how to spell. This doesn't make sense, of course, since writing a book requires a certain understanding of how to communicate effectively, an achievement demanding a much more clever tool.

Much like writing a book, writing software also demands a much more clever tool than a graphical, drag-and-drop interface. Developers understand more than how to write text in odd languages; they understand how to solve problems. Creating a graphical interface for building websites doesn't remove the necessity of a developer. On the contrary, it creates more jobs for more developers who specialize in building applications using a drag-and-drop interface.

Re: Twitter, but without code

#60
post #58
post #13

So, it lets you prototype apps. That is awesome. Too bad all those engineers are going to be farmers by 2020 though. Because when your prototype gets popular, I doubt Bubble.is can handle all the things that actually make your app run at scale (the deployments, maintenance, database, etc management programming that is really what makes apps like Twitter run .. not just the tiny html/css/js stack that the client plays…

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Today, only about 20 million people[1] are building software for over 3 billion internet connected people[2] (and even more who can get access to software in other ways). That's only about 0.6% of users contributing to the rest. Tools like bubble.is are not replacing the very scarce resource of software engineers, they're just vastly expanding the bubble (har har) of pote…

The best example of this happening successfully that I can think of, albeit in a much narrower scope, is the recent shift in game development. Game engines used to be super expensive to license and tricky to develop for, but just in the past year several of the biggest game engines have become open for anyone to use, and have also made their development tools work really well for people who don't write code. We're not quite at the point where you can make elaborate games just by dragging and dropping, but a lot of serious effort is being put into it. And as advances are being made, we're quickly growing the potential number of developers out there.

This change doesn't necessarily mean there will be much more higher quality content on a global scale, but it will definitely increase the amount of content and shift consumption into narrower scopes by providing many specialized solution rather than one monolith solution for the problems out there.

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