The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills • Hacker News Board

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#121

Post by paganel » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:44 AM UTC

cmelbye wrote: post #27

GhotiFish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined? I don't understand.

In older stories, sure. But the "action hero" died a while ago. Have you not noticed the rise of the weak male lead in movies/TV/commercials? It's hugely prevalent in romantic comedies, but even TV shows like Modern Family (bumbling Phil and razor-sharp Claire) depict archetypes that are becoming quite common. The formula is a charming yet incompetent male lead who's mainly driven by sex, paired with a strong, capabl…

> But the "action hero" died a while ago.

As a 30-something guy the main issue I had with Avengers 2 (just to pick the latest mainstream action movie example) was the blatant product placement which had no logic (like driving an Audi convertible in the midst of a gunfight scene). Plus, there was too much talking, I almost felt asleep mid-way through the movie. I'm not a comic-books aficionado, so I didn't particularly care about any of the characters, I just wanted some good action.

Compare that with "Predator" or the "Rocky" or "Rambo" series. Lots of good action, lots of "this is damn cool!" feeling without much thinking or non-sense talking. And "Last Action Hero", the movie, was indeed genius, like its director, John McTiernan.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#122

Post by mreiland » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:46 AM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

> As a society, we need to come to terms with masculinity. That means men need to be able to be masculine without being domineering and without being castigated.

You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about. This is a social problem towards men, it is not a mans problem they need to solve for themselves.

The issue has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with the current crop of overly loud feminists. They won, and in doing so they left behind half the population. It's time for society to remember that other half.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#123

Post by senorito » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:47 AM UTC

> In every country in the world, male suicides outnumber female. The mystery is why?

It's not mysterious at all ... it's obvious. Men face stricter social judgement and less psychological support.

> Less than 5 per cent do. So mental illness is not an explanation.

What? First of all that is a lot and second of all it is no secret that a very severe depression often keeps people from contacting a doctor and being diagnosed. In Germany you are facing easily several months until treatment. When do you contact a doc - when you are suffering the worst - when do you commit suicide? - then - and you are not diagnosed yet.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#124

Post by senorito » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:48 AM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

And how is this related to suicide? Actually I think guys with especially masculine ambitions face the highest risk of suicide - which is also explained in the article.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#125

Post by mreiland » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:49 AM UTC

Crito wrote: post #115

vacri wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do both: be stoic and also be able to discuss your weaknesses. See toughness as a virtue, but not pursue it to a fault.

They are often at odds, when the pressure to discuss your feelings is external. Many times in my life people around me have pressured me to express how I feel about some recent event. I often resist this for a number of reasons. I might consider my feelings towards the matter to be deeply personal and private. I may realize that my feelings toward the matter will, if vocalized, cause distress to others. I may not hav…

I just need to ruminate on things sometimes, anyone who tries to get me to "open up" is just going to prolong the process by not allowing me to examine and/or get to a spot emotionally where I'm able to accept whatever it is I'm dealing with.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#126

Post by untog » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:51 AM UTC

vijayr wrote: post #37

GhotiFish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined? I don't understand.

Look at some of the stories from the media. Some airlines will not allow males sit next to unaccompanied children. A theme park bans single males from bird watching, "in case they are predators". Female sexual assaults are disgusting while male sexual assaults are funny, to most people. If a little girl has a problem, it is immediately attended to, whereas if a little boy has a problem, he is told to "be a man and su…

Feminism is cool whereas MRA is not.

Because MRA has an absolutely horrific public image. If they concentrated on topics like visitation rights in divorce they'd be well appreciated - Fathers 4 Justice[1] is/was an organsiation that does exactly that and received positive coverage back in the mid-2000s (sadly, according to Wikipedia they've since gotten worse)

By contrast, almost every MRA conversation I've ever seen has been talking about how awful Feminists are. Using "Social justice warrior" to cover anyone who is passionate about helping women do anything (and why is it a negative label anyway?). About fake rape accusations as if they cast doubt over every legitimate accusation ever made. About how scantily clad women are 'asking for it'.

Is it really any wonder MRA isn't "cool"? (and let's be honest - Feminism isn't exactly universally cool anyway)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_Justice

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#127

Post by humanrebar » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:57 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #121

cmelbye wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In older stories, sure. But the "action hero" died a while ago. Have you not noticed the rise of the weak male lead in movies/TV/commercials? It's hugely prevalent in romantic comedies, but even TV shows like Modern Family (bumbling Phil and razor-sharp Claire) depict archetypes that are becoming quite common. The formula is a charming yet incompetent male lead who's mainly driven by sex, paired with a strong, capabl…

> But the "action hero" died a while ago. As a 30-something guy the main issue I had with Avengers 2 (just to pick the latest mainstream action movie example) was the blatant product placement which had no logic (like driving an Audi convertible in the midst of a gunfight scene). Plus, there was too much talking, I almost felt asleep mid-way through the movie. I'm not a comic-books aficionado, so I didn't particularl…

You're just going to the wrong movies. There are action-no-talking films. Basically anything made by Michael Bay, for example. John Wick or The Raid 2 if you're not into CGI action. Anything made by Stallone in the last decade. There are plenty of Asian imports as well.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#128

Post by mavdi » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:02 AM UTC

parennoob wrote: post #8

I think this article puts the euphemism 'social perfectionism' on the subtle, and in some cases blatant anti-male stance that pervades US and UK society today. Sports teams fall over themselves to wear pink for Mother's Day, hardly anyone celebrates Father's Day. [1] Time Magazine publishes an article on how "Men are Obsolete". [2] Politicians routinely trumpet the 77% pay gap despite it being "more complicated than…

Terrible cases for sure but none makes being a man any harder than being a woman. Life can be equally shit. I just think women vent things off better than men do.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#129

Post by ddebernardy » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:04 AM UTC

fierycatnet wrote: post #53

This article points out something I've felt intuitively for the last few years. Can anyone recommend any vacation destinations or some other form of a get-away for a week or two? I've been getting really stressed out lately, probably a burn out. Have been thinking about some sort of a vacation anywhere from a cruise to meditation retreat, can't make up my mind. Any recommendations? Not to derail this topic but this a…

Go camping or rent a place some place reasonably calm or unfamiliar, and stay there for two weeks.

Where exactly matters little, the point is to make it two weeks during which you ignore work and aren't watching news and TV all day long. Your body and mind needs about a week to snap out of your life routine and start resting -- which it does during the second week.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#130

Post by toyg » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:05 AM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #119

vijayr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at some of the stories from the media. Some airlines will not allow males sit next to unaccompanied children. A theme park bans single males from bird watching, "in case they are predators". Female sexual assaults are disgusting while male sexual assaults are funny, to most people. If a little girl has a problem, it is immediately attended to, whereas if a little boy has a problem, he is told to "be a man and su…

>> Feminism is cool whereas MRA is not The extreme voices of feminism are pretty awful, but AFAICT the entire MRA movement is made up of arseholes. It doesn't have to be, and there are issues to be addressed. It's just a shame it seems to be addressed by misogynist dickholes.

But part of the problem is that nobody would address radical feminists as "misandrist cuntholes", right? Doing so would automatically disqualify your credibility. But for men, it's fine, they are really dickholes, right?

That's cultural hegemony at work, folks.