Stories like this show the 2nd Amendment defense of "it protects against tyrranical government" for the farce it is. Civil forfeiture isn't rare, and stories have been bubbling up for quite some time. Forget taxes, which actually go to providing you services, pretty much everyone can agree that 'civil forfeiture' is government agents stealing from the public, with no service offered in return. Where is the protection that 2nd Amendment is supposed to give from government?
How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
161–170 of 455 posts
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#162I keep seeing these stories and, yes, civil forfeiture is a problem, but why are these people traveling with CASH in these amounts? I always get a cashier's check or similar since it offers me some protection.
Yes, or why withdraw it in cash at all? It could be kept in the bank and a debit card used to withdraw it.
> or why withdraw it in cash at all?
Its my money, I can do whatever I want.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#163I've heard this sort of thing happening in Third World countries. Perhaps the US is - for all its advanced technology and creature comforts - essentially now a Third World kleptocracy. Silicon Valley and Manhattan are like Dubai - gaudy showcases that don't represent the true nature of the hinterland. I would be very wary about working in Dubai; I would be equally wary about working and living in the US for the same…
I'm a US citizen who is very unhappy about "civil forfeiture", about mass surveillance, etc. But the reality is that most people in the US are not directly affected. I haven't really been affected, and I don't personally know anyone who has been. (yeah yeah it helps that I'm white.) Most US citizens who are aware of these things, like me, are very unhappy about them. But most people are not really aware, and one reas…
In the US... you can get a lawyer
There are lawyers in this thread that claim cases where civil forfeiture is done to prevent the individual getting a lawyer.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could imagine reading it this way: DEA agents confronted the only black man in the train car and demanded he open his bags, shook him down, and stole his cash. In a brazen theft which DEA agents later claimed was legal under the veil of "civil forfeiture" the state prosecutor has refused to press charges, and the judge on the case has refused to provide relief for the plaintiff... I hope we continue to see a rele…
It's hard to get your money back because the government treats it as if it weren't your money. What happens is since the DEA can't prove you're involved in a crime they sue... your money. There will be a case in federal court that will be something like "Leonhart v $23,174". They don't even have to notify you. So. At this point you're not a party to the proceeding, so you can't do any of the normal things you'd do if…
What if I wrap my (virtual) money in a simple script that allows it to defend itself by hiring a lawyer or, at least, contacting me?
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#165The USA, the biggest anti-advertisement for democracy. I can only imagine what could happen to the guy if he was not a Roman.. eh, sorry, US citizen.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#166[deleted]
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a mostly still intact and strong property rights system The practice of civil forfeiture on people who can't defend legally, like this guy, sure doesn't indicate that. Maybe for the HSBC guys who laundered $378.4 billion over several years there will be a small fine, their profit for a few months. But no bank was forfeited. No board members were sent to jail for it. It seems property rights are solid, if you are ri…
Yes, the DEA forfeiture racket is vile, and yes it needs to be stopped. Nobody should undercut how terrible what they're doing is. The reason the US still ranks high on the low corruption index, is because you have to take the value of the whole, not just one small problem such as this. It impacts an extraordinarily small percentage of Americans today, and the dollar sums are extraordinarily small in such a large eco…
The reason the US ranks low on the corruption perception index, is that those in the electorate not totally apathetic have scandal fatigue. Try looking into what passes for a "scandal" in some of the countries that have similar scores to the US.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#168It is amazing that Americans allow this sort of thing then say they are a world leader in personal liberty.
> a world leader in personal liberty
[Citation needed]
Thanks.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US still ranks among the best nations on earth when it comes to low corruption in fact Yes, because corruption has been legalized through corruption. You can, as a rich person, or an enterprise, legally bride politicians so that they can pass laws for your own profit. "low crime, low corruption". Also remember that "no crime" has been committed in the 2008 financial crisis.
You may not be familiar with US history when it comes to that. It's actually far harder to legally bribe politicians today than it was eg 100 years ago. A century ago there were hardly any laws restricting such practices. What has changed in that time, is now the government has vast economic controls at its disposal. If the government doesn't control the economy, you can't buy economic favors from them. When the US w…
I was reading a while ago how a surprise candidate won some state-level election and lobbyists were falling over themselves to donate to his campaign... after he had won.
It may not be legal to give politicians money, but it's totally legal to donate to their old expired campaign, and for them to then have the campaign repay the loan they gave it.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#170I've heard this sort of thing happening in Third World countries. Perhaps the US is - for all its advanced technology and creature comforts - essentially now a Third World kleptocracy. Silicon Valley and Manhattan are like Dubai - gaudy showcases that don't represent the true nature of the hinterland. I would be very wary about working in Dubai; I would be equally wary about working and living in the US for the same…
I'm a US citizen who is very unhappy about "civil forfeiture", about mass surveillance, etc. But the reality is that most people in the US are not directly affected. I haven't really been affected, and I don't personally know anyone who has been. (yeah yeah it helps that I'm white.) Most US citizens who are aware of these things, like me, are very unhappy about them. But most people are not really aware, and one reas…
> In the US, you can talk about it, you can get a lawyer, you can have newspaper articles written.
And is this helping Joseph Rivers, a victim of shameless organised theft and institutional racism?
The "most people are unaffected" argument, which gets trotted out a lot, has a strong reek of the Martin Niemøller idea: ( http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 )
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Speak out, god damn it, if you have an ounce of freedom left in your blood! How can you sit idly by and make excuses and diminish the problem while your fellow man is being trampled by a ruling class of armoured thugs and liars? Is this what America was built on? That's not what you claim in your movies.
If you're making excuses for how this sort of despicable crap is "not that big a problem", you need to take a good, long look in the mirror and realise that you're currently part of the problem.
Every time an innocent has his rights trampled in this way, it is all of humanity that suffers. I am incensed on this person's behalf, and shocked and disappointed that this person's compatriots take it so lightly.