For all the Americans on HN, just be clear that the DEA is acting in our name. They represent us, and we are responsible for their actions. This and worse occurs every day, and will continue to until we get our elected representatives to stop it.
How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
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Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#32When the Heritage Foundation[1] and the ACLU [2] are both against it, you know it's really bad.
[1] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/03/civil-asset... [2] https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-po...
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#33I've heard this sort of thing happening in Third World countries. Perhaps the US is - for all its advanced technology and creature comforts - essentially now a Third World kleptocracy. Silicon Valley and Manhattan are like Dubai - gaudy showcases that don't represent the true nature of the hinterland. I would be very wary about working in Dubai; I would be equally wary about working and living in the US for the same reasons.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#34The important bit: > he may have been singled out for a search because he was the only black person on that part of the train.
The key part for me is right here - "A DEA agent boarded the train at the Albuquerque Amtrak station and began asking various passengers, including Rivers, where they were going and why." Yeah, no. We've already crossed into unacceptable police behavior right there. There's no reason to suspect me of a crime, so you don't get to question me. At all. Forget whether or not it's smart for me to answer it, it's wrong for…
Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree with you that the officials crossed the limits in basically everything in case what's reported is completely factual.
And honestly, having cash in an envelope should be something completely normal no matter where you are. In Japan having tons of cash on you is not frown upon by anyone, because cash is used for everything and accepted everywhere even where cards aren't (and people are not afraid of being robbed).
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#35If the police continue to allow asset seizure eventually an enterprising politician and banker will find a way to seize police pensions. There will be no public outcry. Once you institutionalize theft at this level it doesn't stay put--it grows.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#36I do not dispute that this is very unfair (and thats putting it mildly).... ... but did the Washington Post bother finding out if this man was involved in criminal activity? It does not make this law any less unfair, but surely it makes a difference in the outrage in this case. People are not upset when cartel members have their planes and jewelry confiscated. Proving your life savings are in fact legally earned shou…
They stole it, and they will not give it back. If someone is mugged on your block, is the first thing you do to sit there and wonder whether they are completely free of sin?
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#37I do not dispute that this is very unfair (and thats putting it mildly).... ... but did the Washington Post bother finding out if this man was involved in criminal activity? It does not make this law any less unfair, but surely it makes a difference in the outrage in this case. People are not upset when cartel members have their planes and jewelry confiscated. Proving your life savings are in fact legally earned shou…
> ... but did the Washington Post bother finding out if this man was involved in criminal activity? It does not make this law any less unfair, but surely it makes a difference in the outrage in this case.
The Washington Post confirmed that he was never tried for any crime, let alone convicted. The legal system of the US is built on the premise that guilt must be shown, and innocence presumed. They didn't even attempt to show he was guilty -- instead, they just stole his money.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#38Why hasn't this been challenged in court? Seems like civil forfeiture violates the 4th amendment.
Kaley v. United States[1]
"Held: When challenging the legality of a §853(e)(1) pre-trial asset seizure, a criminal defendant who has been indicted is not constitutionally entitled to contest a grand jury’s determination of probable cause to believe the defendant committed the crimes charged."
Kind of a weird 6-3 coalition too.
[1] http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-464_7mi8.pdf
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#39I keep seeing these stories and, yes, civil forfeiture is a problem, but why are these people traveling with CASH in these amounts? I always get a cashier's check or similar since it offers me some protection.
Re: How the DEA took a young man’s life savings without charging him with a crime
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
race-card popular lately, but civil forfeiture is a problem here. More race you bring - less efficient you get with fighting real issue at hands. If you do little research - people of all races and sexes were hurt by that, and local/federal police benefitted from it.
Please don't do a dismissive handwave over what's really an important element to this story. That the victim is a person of color is absolutely relevant to this story; it demonstrates a bias on behalf of the DEA agent, or perhaps simply a cynicism: they know what they can get away with in the eyes of the public. Of COURSE race is an important element of how law enforcement interacts with citizens. Race is part of the…
> a person of color
There's one of your problems. Am I a person of no colour?
Your (and this isn't a direct attack on you) use of language contributes to the situation while it is trying to be softly softly.