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Be Kind

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Re: Be Kind

#251

Post by mkramlich »

jorgearturo wrote: post #245
mkramlich wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great nuance and insight! That feels like part of it. When I'm wearing the Software Engineer hat, yes, the entire world can fail if a single nit is imperfect. But when we wear the Human Conversing or Persuading hat I expect and indeed enjoy seeing and using a more fuzzy logic. I expect more buffer and assume-I'm-not-an-idiot-kid-please-get-off-my-lawn-been-there-done-that-have-the-tee-shirt-thanks. Compilers and CPUs…

Unfortunately, I don't think "aha!-you're-not-exactly-right" kind of people are going away anytime soon, they've been around on the net since I first laid mouse on it (the 90s, I'm not that old) and they've conquered the technical forums for a reason. Some people simply have that sort of mindset, one just needs to wear the "deal with it" hat and get over it. In fact, those people are very useful and most of them have…

ha. your welcome!

maybe turn it into a C poem and wear as a T-shirt?

I once had the following printed on a T-shirt and wore to a Meetup.com event here in Colorado, and out of the crowd an early Bell Labs alumnus (C/UNIX era) emerged and tried to recruit me:

    while (!(success = try()));
perhaps:

    void whatever(params) {
        assert assume_im_not_an_idiot_kid_please_get_off_my_lawn_been_there_done_that_have_the_shirt_thanks(params);
        ...
    }

Re: Be Kind

#252

Post by vijayr »

tempestn wrote: post #215
mucker wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't outliers.

Can you explain why you say that? It seems you're suggesting that there is in fact a correlation between genius, or at least effective management, and unkindness. Is that what you meant? If so, why? I can see how high high achievers could tend to be extremely focused and driven, which in some cases would present in this way. I wouldn't expect it to be the norm though; do you believe otherwise? How do you know?

I guess the parent is saying that there are lots of people with nasty behavior who are successful - may be not bill gates level successful, but successful nevertheless. Just a guess though

Re: Be Kind

#253

Post by shaneofalltrad »

hellbanTHIS wrote: post #249

Maybe this is a low blow but if there's one place that needs a little less kindness and a lot more truth it's the Facebook News Feed. It's real nice that they only show you news they think you'll like but it seems pretty irresponsible. If they really want to make the world a better place they should come up with some way of spotting some of the verifiably false news stories that get posted there. They could do it nic…

That is an interesting perspective; "have set him up with sturdier folks". Coming from a construction background myself, I find I need to work on my behavior, as engineers are much more sensitive than construction workers and actually anyone I have ever worked with, even sales people. I work with another guy, who was a previous auto-mechanic and we get along great. Might make sense to add a study as to personalities, dynamics of these teams and what personality combinations make for the most successful teams.

Re: Be Kind

#255

Post by sanxiyn »

theli0nheart wrote: post #181
roflc0ptic wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based off of my vague memory, in "How To Win Friends and Influence People", one main point is not to contradict people. In text or in person, never tell someone they're wrong. In general, when I want to correct someone's understanding I frame it as a failure of my own understanding. Like, hey, I'm the asshole here, would you do me a favor by going over this one more time for me? This is great because it allows the ot…

I don't know. I think you can tell someone you disagree outright and still be nice about it. I've been in situations where people act like how you're suggesting (i.e., frame the issue as being with them, instead of with me) and it comes off as a little passive aggressive. I know that might sound odd, but in the end it makes me feel like they're hiding something from me or not willing to tell me what they really think…

I feel the same, but I think we must admit we are weird. Most people do not want to hear what other people really think, and you most certainly should not assume that people usually have such desire.

Re: Be Kind

#256

Post by pdkl95 »

hashtree wrote: post #246
pdkl95 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. > the start of a journey that is still ongoing Then you still have a long way to go on that journey, because you apparently have no idea the damage you've done to the world with Facebook. You have help lead people into undermining their own privacy, straight into the hands of a surveillance state. So keep on that journ…

I really hope there is a joke in there I am missing, besides the obvious irony in relation to the article content.

I always mean what I say.

Re: Be Kind

#257

Post by jorgearturo »

ffn wrote: post #121
mankyd wrote: post #4

I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence af…

Yes, totally this. Moreover, I'd like to add anonymously down-voting / reporting someone's opinion just because it's not yours is just as mean-spirited as calling someone names. Every internet message board has its own culture with its own take on what's "right" and what's "wrong", and on HN (and reddit) the institutionally accepted way of being mean is misusing the downvoting / flagkilling system to attempt to bleep…

You might be right. Even when in many cases you can immediately tell downvotes were necessary, deserved and the commenter should've seen it coming.

I've also encountered many cases that confused me a bit and at the time didn't quite understand why those people/commenters were being downvoted.

So I've spent a long time just reading HN without commenting, trying to first understand the culture, the news are just as important as the people curating them IMHO. After sometime I've begun to understand the different mindsets and dynamics; there are many discernible reasons to be downvoted by the community, there's for example, being perceived as a shill or a strawman, and etc. And correct me if I'm wrong but there's also the secret/magic algorithms making the mod's jobs easier, I don't think those algorithms are perfect and may make mistakes sometimes, that's understandable.

But there are still enough cases that I suspect ended up being downvoted just because disagreement motive or maybe even for irrational emotion (very rarely do strong emotions come with reason) motive. And there's also the case of Trigger-happy-downvoting individuals, all these latter cases generate such damage that I have * sometimes * even found myself a bit suspicious of the worth of the HN community as a whole.

But I stressed "sometimes" for a reason...

...One has to understand that communities change, that's a fact, and as YC has had success and obtained more and more media attention (and therefore HN as well), different kind of audiences have joined the flock (me included, since a few years ago).

My guess is that HN's community is still adapting to the new audience, must be tough since there must be thousands of real people along with hundreds of fake accounts (some with nefarious purposes) and bots.

In the end, you'll find it more useful to acquire a thick skin and a "deal with it" attitude towards gratuitous negativity (down-voters included), but not an impermeable shell because sometimes there's some useful criticism behind rude negativity, just don't take it personal and master the art of spinning the conversation towards a constructive direction.

Side note: >> anonymously down-voting / reporting someone's opinion just because it's not yours is just as mean-spirited as calling someone names.

Amazingly well phrased, I had to point that one out :)

Re: Be Kind

#258

Post by zxxz »

eclipxe wrote: post #225
zxxz wrote: post #220

I don't agree with the author. Did that my first sentence above just hurt the feelings of the author or or many of the readers over here? Please read on. This kind of philosophies (be kind-hearted, be tolerant etc) are the ones making humanity loose their natural vigor and push people into unnatural soft-minded, lame and vulnerable population. These self-restricting rules makes you neutral and weak against someone wh…

I don't think anyone thinks disagreement should lead to hurt feelings. There's a difference between being right and KIND and being right and a total ass. We live in a civil world and as much as you promote "natural vigor" as an anthesis to kindness, there are ways to have vigor and drive while also being kind and respected. Difficult? Yes, but as a society we should aspire to do great things while also having a regar…

My point is, you should not be unjust to others. And you should not be unjust to yourself. But you need not pretend to appease others just because they expect it. This messes up the whole communication. You are hiding your real feelings. They loose opportunity to learn and grow up. Infact this is more serious in case where the communication is across different cultures. People can't read the unsaid stuff.

As a scoiety, we should learn to not get offended easily, not depend on kindness from others, or beg for regard. That's the strong and ideal society. That makes it easy to achieve great things, because we are not burdened by the task of checking if it hurts anyone's feelings and to modify our work to make everyone happy.

BTW, whether somneone is being ass or not, also depends on your own expectations and pampering.

Think again, about the roots of necessity for pleasing everyone.

Re: Be Kind

#260

Post by jorgearturo »

mkramlich wrote: post #251
jorgearturo wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I don't think "aha!-you're-not-exactly-right" kind of people are going away anytime soon, they've been around on the net since I first laid mouse on it (the 90s, I'm not that old) and they've conquered the technical forums for a reason. Some people simply have that sort of mindset, one just needs to wear the "deal with it" hat and get over it. In fact, those people are very useful and most of them have…

ha. your welcome! maybe turn it into a C poem and wear as a T-shirt? I once had the following printed on a T-shirt and wore to a Meetup.com event here in Colorado, and out of the crowd an early Bell Labs alumnus (C/UNIX era) emerged and tried to recruit me: while (!(success = try())); perhaps: void whatever(params) { assert assume_im_not_an_idiot_kid_please_get_off_my_lawn_been_there_done_that_have_the_shirt_thanks(p…

haha that's hilarious, I don't think I have enough rep to make my voting count, but I nevertheless upvoted you just in case.

And I should warn you! I WILL make a T-shirt and give you credit.

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