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The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

mosaicscience.com

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Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#11

Post by GhotiFish »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined?

I don't understand.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#12

Post by nkozyra »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

My long - but casual - observation is this is not a phenomenon relegated to gender, but rather a common theme with the prevailing majority.

The ability to hold up traits common to those that are in power as a source of derision seems to have a cathartic function in both the recipient(s) and the sender(s).

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#13

Post by mixmastamyk »

GhotiFish wrote: post #11
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined? I don't understand.

He's speaking of commercials, which often portray dad as barely able to tie his own shoes.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#14

Post by meatysnapper »

parennoob wrote: post #8

I think this article puts the euphemism 'social perfectionism' on the subtle, and in some cases blatant anti-male stance that pervades US and UK society today. Sports teams fall over themselves to wear pink for Mother's Day, hardly anyone celebrates Father's Day. [1] Time Magazine publishes an article on how "Men are Obsolete". [2] Politicians routinely trumpet the 77% pay gap despite it being "more complicated than…

Yeah, I'm not really seeing the whole social perfectionism thing either. An ex-coworker killed himself in a similar situation.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#15

Post by GhotiFish »

parennoob wrote: post #8

I think this article puts the euphemism 'social perfectionism' on the subtle, and in some cases blatant anti-male stance that pervades US and UK society today. Sports teams fall over themselves to wear pink for Mother's Day, hardly anyone celebrates Father's Day. [1] Time Magazine publishes an article on how "Men are Obsolete". [2] Politicians routinely trumpet the 77% pay gap despite it being "more complicated than…

huh? I hardly feel threatened by basically everything you just listed there. Do you?

I get the feeling if you asked most women: "Do you think men are awful?" The answer would be "Yes but we love them anyway."

and, to be on a less cutsey point.

There was a time in my life where I was seriously depressed, and it was not because I thought society treated men poorly on average. It was because I thought I would have no place in society.

So at the very least for this poster, my experience directly contradicts you. Hardly scientific, but I trust my own eyes.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#17

Post by brookside »

Dewie3 wrote: post #5

> When they finally divorced, Livvy got the house, the children, the lot. Once the maintenance was paid, there wasn’t much left for Drummond. I guess getting suicidal over things like this is "social perfectionism".

Indeed, it seems as though Drummond's suffered from real setbacks and a lack of true social connectedness. I'm not sure why he would be chosen to be the centerpiece of this article about social perfectionists.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#18

Post by Torgo »

GhotiFish wrote: post #11
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined? I don't understand.

If I watch an action movie, I am not intimidated by or identify with the cool guy in the movie because I'm not the guy they're portraying. When sitcoms and commercials emasculate and defame the everyman, I know they're talking about me.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#19

Post by parennoob »

GhotiFish wrote: post #15
parennoob wrote: post #8

I think this article puts the euphemism 'social perfectionism' on the subtle, and in some cases blatant anti-male stance that pervades US and UK society today. Sports teams fall over themselves to wear pink for Mother's Day, hardly anyone celebrates Father's Day. [1] Time Magazine publishes an article on how "Men are Obsolete". [2] Politicians routinely trumpet the 77% pay gap despite it being "more complicated than…

huh? I hardly feel threatened by basically everything you just listed there. Do you? I get the feeling if you asked most women: "Do you think men are awful?" The answer would be "Yes but we love them anyway." and, to be on a less cutsey point. There was a time in my life where I was seriously depressed, and it was not because I thought society treated men poorly on average. It was because I thought I would have no pl…

> I hardly feel threatened by basically everything you just listed there. Do you?

Seeing a bias and pointing it out does not equal "being threatened". Would you speak this way to a woman who was pointing out, say, anti-female bias in hackathon results?

> I get the feeling if you asked most women: "Do you think men are awful?" The answer would be "Yes but we love them anyway."

The fact that you accept the "yes" at the beginning of that answer reflexively illustrates my point precisely. Remember that the adjective I used to describe majority of the bias I referred to was subtle, not blatant.

> There was a time in my life where I was seriously depressed, and it was not because I thought society treated men poorly on average. It was because I thought I would have no place in society. So at the very least for this poster, my experience directly contradicts you.

I think you are misconstruing my post as a reflection of my life situation. Nothing is really verifiable over the Internet, but I can assure you that it is not.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#20

Post by j2kun »

Torgo wrote: post #18
GhotiFish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined? I don't understand.

If I watch an action movie, I am not intimidated by or identify with the cool guy in the movie because I'm not the guy they're portraying. When sitcoms and commercials emasculate and defame the everyman, I know they're talking about me.

Yet young boys grow up identifying with the hero.
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