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Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

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Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#81

Post by yuhong »

mmcru wrote: post #50
mike-cardwell wrote: post #18

And here is the end result of people leaving Firefox for Chrome. You neutered Mozilla. There is no longer a browser vendor which has both your interests in heart and sufficient power to direct the evolution of the web. Who now gets to choose which features are built into the majority of desktop and mobile browsers? Advertising companies.

agreed. i try to explain to people that firefox is an open source program created by an organization that is trying to keep the web free, while chrome is created by one of the world's biggest advertising companies, but they don't seem to care enough to use firefox. i feel like mozilla should give up on the soccer mom users and focus on being the power user browser. this is already the case to an extent, but they don'…

I don't think most users need to care about it this much anyway.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#82

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

e12e wrote: post #80

Apparently DRM doesn't work on Linux, yet - but either way: how can DRM even work with Free software? If I can modify the source and build my own version, surely I can [make a version of the software that] strip out the DRM? Would that make Mozilla liable as facilitating breach of the DMCA? Or is the DRM bit really in a binary blob supplied with the gpu/audio driver? [And support in the browser is just to facilitate…

It's a binary blob served by Adobe or whoever it may be. The DRM API is basically just a plugin layer.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#83

Post by shmerl »

e12e wrote: post #80

Apparently DRM doesn't work on Linux, yet - but either way: how can DRM even work with Free software? If I can modify the source and build my own version, surely I can [make a version of the software that] strip out the DRM? Would that make Mozilla liable as facilitating breach of the DMCA? Or is the DRM bit really in a binary blob supplied with the gpu/audio driver? [And support in the browser is just to facilitate…

DRM is not free software. EME itself is not DRM. It's an API to interact with DRM module. Which doesn't make it any better. It should have no place in HTML standard.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#84

Post by hoopd »

Karunamon wrote: post #46
hoopd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well allow me to extend thanks to you and everybody like you for damaging a very important Open Source project at a very important time. I understand it would have been difficult to sit down at the negotiation table with Eich and set an example for everybody of how to work with people you have disagreements with, but it would have been the right thing to do. Either way, you won. I hope it was worth it.

How do you foresee a negotiation with someone's core values progressing? There's a fundamental incompatibility there, not just something that can be talked and reasoned around. You personally, the guy typing the letters into this box, what do you think the outcome of such a "negotiation" would be if it were as successful as humanly possible? At the end of the day, Mozilla's entire mission statement is contrary to Eic…

There's nothing in Mozilla's mission statement[0][1] incompatible with Eich's personal beliefs.

> You personally, the guy typing the letters into this box, what do you think the outcome of such a "negotiation" would be if it were as successful as humanly possible?

I think it would have been adults acting like adults and accepting you don't have to agree with somebody in order to work with them. Eich already demonstrated he was willing and able to do just that.

From 1998 when Eich co-founded Mozilla to 2005, after seven years as the chief technologist and member of the board, how did he misuse his power? From 2005 to 2014 while Eich was Mozilla's CTO, was Mozilla hostile to the LGBT community? How many discrimination lawsuits did Mozilla have to settle because of him?

Eich spent 16 years at or near the top of the Mozilla, yet there's no pattern of discrimination, not only is there no pattern I've been unable to find any evidence whatsoever that he was unable to set personal differences aside. Worse yet for your case is that Eich helped build a very inclusive company where LGBT persons have always been, from what I can tell, quite welcome.

[0] - https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/ [1] - https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mission/

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#85

Post by ptx »

bcheung wrote: post #53
schoen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original commenter was asking why people would want to prevent their browser from having DRM support, rather than why publishers would want DRM. (For DRM opponents, having convenient and standardized DRM is worse in many ways because it is more likely to be adopted in more circumstances.)

I can't think of a good reason to deliberately remove it from your browser. Why would it be worse if more companies used DRM? I can think of some edge cases on obscure devices or if you are pirate but other than that it seems like legal users would be unaffected and not even notice it.

> it seems like legal users would be unaffected and not even notice it.

Yes, just like Sony said in response to the rootkit scandal – "Most people don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"

DRM is a declaration from the publishers that they distrust you so much that they must be granted absolute control over your machine. You can't retain higher privileges over your own machine than they have, or else you would be able to circumvent their system and it wouldn't work.

Why would you trust someone who has declared themselves your enemy to run arbitrary code with root privileges on your machine?

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#87

Post by bigphishy »

betenoire wrote: post #56

Will in-browser DRM prevent someone from running some screencast software? I dunno... it just seems like if I can see it with my eyes and hear it with my ears, then software can do that also, DRM or not.

DRM implmentation into W3 standards and HTML5 won't impede pirates for a second.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#88

Post by DanBC »

teacup50 wrote: post #52
mike-cardwell wrote: post #18

And here is the end result of people leaving Firefox for Chrome. You neutered Mozilla. There is no longer a browser vendor which has both your interests in heart and sufficient power to direct the evolution of the web. Who now gets to choose which features are built into the majority of desktop and mobile browsers? Advertising companies.

Mozilla neutered themselves when they 1) stuck with an ancient, bug-riddled, poorly performing codebase for too long, and 2) tripled down on the JS/HTML/CSS trifecta of suck, and 3) then tried to use it to build an OS. Google was the only browser vendor actively trying to move the web stack beyond the technology swamp it's been mired in for so long. There are individuals today who have literally built an entire caree…

> (a lot of them on HN -- note the downvotes)

You're getting at least some downvotes for your ridiculously hostile aggressive tone.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#89

Post by callahad »

higherpurpose wrote: post #72
mike-cardwell wrote: post #18

And here is the end result of people leaving Firefox for Chrome. You neutered Mozilla. There is no longer a browser vendor which has both your interests in heart and sufficient power to direct the evolution of the web. Who now gets to choose which features are built into the majority of desktop and mobile browsers? Advertising companies.

I for one am pretty decided to move to Firefox once Mozilla integrates Servo into it (granted the performance benefits really are significant). But I'm also waiting for Mozilla to implement its multi-process sandboxing system. Microsoft seems to be doing some interesting things on that front as well - I hope Mozilla is watching. I like the idea of having each tab in an secured app container, which sounds even better…

> I for one am pretty decided to move to Firefox once Mozilla integrates Servo into it

Hooray! I'm excited to have you back. :)

If your switch is gated on Servo, you might be in for a long wait: we're moving small, modular components into Firefox as we're able, but completely changing implementation languages for parts of a browser used by hundreds of millions of people is a slow, deliberate process which involves pretty significant changes not only to our codebase, but also to our build infrastructure.

Right now the immediate goal is to share either an image decoder or the URL parser between Servo and Firefox. Quite likely by the end of the year.

Follow these bugs to find out more when things land:

https://bugzil.la/oxidation, https://bugzil.la/1151899, https://bugzil.la/1161350

> I'm also waiting for Mozilla to implement its multi-process sandboxing system

I believe we're uplifting multi-process into the Dev Edition 40 release in a week or so. If not, it'll be in 41. Goal is to have it on by default in the release channel by the end of the year: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis#Schedule

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#90

Post by pdkl95 »

superuser2 wrote: post #12
schoen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might worry that you wouldn't notice which sites are using it. Or you might want to send a message to sites, or to Mozilla, that you think DRM is bad and that you don't want to have DRM implementations installed. One of the worst things about each browser vendor's decision to support DRM is that it makes the choice to require DRM less costly for new web sites that are considering it. So even if you think Netflix…

This end does not seem to be served by niche browsers which will be used only by the EFF-card-carrying subset of the tech community, people who are most able and least ethically inhibited from piracy anyway. This is a good reason to keep the functionality out of mainstream browsers, but it doesn't seem to work if it's just us using deliberately hobbled browsers.

How typical of the DRM/closed-web subset of the tech community to justify their collaboration with accusations of piracy at those of us trying to create a free and open web.

Resisting any type of DRM from the very beginning is important, because the fight will be a lot harder once there is an established community of users. Educating people about DRM is hard enough; it is almost impossible when it also requires convincing people to give up some service (i.e. netflix) that they have grown accustomed to.

This is the latest battle the ongoing War On General Purpose Computing[1], and a lot of people that should know better are choosing movies and the dream of short-term profits over long-term freedom.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypRYpVKc5Y

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