Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Be Kind

boz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 401 posts

Re: Be Kind

#31

Post by nostrademons »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #9
mankyd wrote: post #4

I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence af…

To be fair, this is also incredibly exhausting. Most peoples' reactions to things are arbitrary at best and constant worrying about how they will take something is just way too much BS to put into my day. I bought pretty deeply into this philosophy once and it just made me neurotic and quiet at a time of my life where those things very much hurt me. I think being selectively kind makes a lot more sense. I'm kind to c…

The thing is - most peoples' reactions to things aren't really arbitrary. There are some outliers, and a good deal of individual variation, but by and large most human emotions follow pretty consistent patterns. It can be hard to see them (particularly when you're young and haven't had a lot of practice interacting with people), but the more you get out and make socially awkward mistakes, the more you can form a mental model of what's likely to be offensive and what's safe.

I agree that it's not worth constantly worrying about what other people think of you, but it turns out that's not usually what other people are expecting anyways. Rather, it's just that when you make a mistake, apologize, try not to make it again, and move on. Everybody makes mistakes - I've seen some folks I consider very socially adept make pretty embarrassing gaffes. But usually the folks who're viewed as socially skilled just brush it off and update their mental model of how not to offend people, while the ones that people get mad at are those who are either completely oblivious or react with defensiveness.

Re: Be Kind

#32

Post by aidenn0 »

weeksie wrote: post #2

Spot on. I think it's tough, particularly as a young guy, to hold back on being overly confrontational. I used to be horrible to be around, not just professionally, but in nearly every way. Super fighty and abrasive. I'd like to think that it was through mindful practice that I've managed to tame my aggression. Perhaps it is, partly. But the real reason that I'm a lot easier to get along with now probably has to do w…

I think it is mindful practice; I'm in my mid 30s and probably more abrasive than in my early 20s, despite having much less testosterone-fueled aggression.

Re: Be Kind

#33

Post by fweespeech »

mankyd wrote: post #4

I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence af…

> It's perfectly OK to disagree with someone; but please consider doing so in a respectful and thoughtful tone.

The problem I've found is I literally get ignored and end up repeatedly dealing with the same mess until I stop being "kind" about it.

I generally have to do literally 10x as much work to be "kind" than when I'm less generous about it. The problem with kindness is its frequently taken [in IT, in places I've worked] as it not being a serious problem that actually needs to be addressed except as a favor to you. It eventually, frequently, gets to the point where serious problems are repeatedly introduced and you end up having to clean it up.

Because from their point of view, if it really was a problem, you would have stopped being nice after the first or second time.

Re: Be Kind

#34

Post by spb »

fsniper wrote: post #29
midnightmonster wrote: post #23

Author's 'before' picture is me very often. I'm nearly ego-less in pursuit of the truth--more than ready to be shown wrong myself--but that doesn't mean that coworkers and loved ones end up feeling good about the conversation. I hope he will write a "how to" follow up, because I would like to change, but I don't see how to do it in a way that doesn't sound impossibly exhausting. I'm hopeful that it actually is possib…

I think reading, "How To Win Friends and Influence People " from Dale Carnegie helps. Took me years to understand soft skills are as much or more important than technical skills. (Fixed book's name)

It's "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and it's one of Paul Graham's recommended books (see http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfaq.html ), along with the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin.

There's also "7 Habits of Highly Effective People", which is often recommended in the same breath.

Re: Be Kind

#35

Post by [deleted] »

fsniper wrote: post #29
midnightmonster wrote: post #23

Author's 'before' picture is me very often. I'm nearly ego-less in pursuit of the truth--more than ready to be shown wrong myself--but that doesn't mean that coworkers and loved ones end up feeling good about the conversation. I hope he will write a "how to" follow up, because I would like to change, but I don't see how to do it in a way that doesn't sound impossibly exhausting. I'm hopeful that it actually is possib…

I think reading, "How To Win Friends and Influence People " from Dale Carnegie helps. Took me years to understand soft skills are as much or more important than technical skills. (Fixed book's name)

[deleted]

Re: Be Kind

#36

Post by JoeAltmaier »

fweespeech wrote: post #33
mankyd wrote: post #4

I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence af…

> It's perfectly OK to disagree with someone; but please consider doing so in a respectful and thoughtful tone. The problem I've found is I literally get ignored and end up repeatedly dealing with the same mess until I stop being "kind" about it. I generally have to do literally 10x as much work to be "kind" than when I'm less generous about it. The problem with kindness is its frequently taken [in IT, in places I've…

Miss Manners wrote about her newspaper subscription not arriving. She called repeatedly and was nice. Finally she got somebody in charge who told her "We don't do anything unless the customer is angry". She asked nicely if he would put her down as having been irate. He kindly did.

Re: Be Kind

#37

Post by eclipxe »

buckbova wrote: post #20
eclipxe wrote: post #14

The best manager I ever had (and continues to be my inspiration today) was also one of the kindest, genuine, and empowering people I've ever met. Not necessarily nice, but kind. The worst manager I ever had once told me "you're too kind to your team". He wore his ability to bring fear to a room like a badge of honor. I never worked harder and more passionately than under the first and I never felt more apathetic and…

Did the second manager fire you? He doesn't sound so unkind letting an apathetic unmotivated lead keep his or her job. It doesn't seem like we're getting the whole story here. That second manager might have been an ass, but it seems like he got the job done.

No, the second manager didn't fire me - my apathy and lack of motivation didn't keep the team from shipping or themselves being demotivated. A key thing the first manager taught me was that a good leader is able to keep their team motivated and moving forward in spite of problems above - shielding the team, etc.

And the second wasn't an ass - he just used fear as a management technique. As opposed to the first manager that used empowerment and encouragement.

I do see a fair share of managers that use fear/authority/power as a technique to get results, but for me (and I see for many other peers) it is counter productive in the long run.

Respect earned from fear/position is short-lived. Respect earned from trust and empowerment will stay with people their entire careers and pay dividends.

Re: Be Kind

#38

Post by cjdrake »

Several well-known people in tech are notorious jerks. So I don't think being kind is a necessary condition for career success (though it can't hurt). But I suspect it's necessary to have a happy life.

Re: Be Kind

#39

Post by fsniper »

spb wrote: post #34
fsniper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think reading, "How To Win Friends and Influence People " from Dale Carnegie helps. Took me years to understand soft skills are as much or more important than technical skills. (Fixed book's name)

It's "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and it's one of Paul Graham's recommended books (see http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfaq.html ), along with the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin. There's also "7 Habits of Highly Effective People", which is often recommended in the same breath.

Shoot, I wrote it correctly at first, and after checking for the authors correct name with google, I screwed and put it wrongly.

That search is still open and the text is correct there. Actually, I don't know how I managed this screw up.

Re: Be Kind

#40

Post by btilly »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #13
mankyd wrote: post #4

I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence af…

Trouble is, tone doesn't come through text very well. Takes a lot more typing and very careful word choice. So haste often comes off as unkind. Maybe we can read comments more kindly, and give terse words the benefit of the doubt?

"Text does not communicate tone" is a huge problem. You can solve that by deciding that certain types of communication should be done face to face.

Being kind can be more concise. Here is an example that my fiance recently pointed out...

I think the single biggest mistake people make in communication is reminding the other person they are incorrect when that does not change the content.

"As I told you Monday, the reason is X."

"I have not heard from you when I asked for feedback, so I am following up."

"We could have done it the other way, but since you already set it up, let's use this."

It is amazingly tempting, almost everyone does it, and your communication becomes an order of magnitude more benevolent when you edit those clauses out.

For more ideas on how to be concise and kind, I highly recommend the parenting book, _How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, and Listen so Kids Will Talk_. It is not just for parents. What works with 13 year old kids also works with 30 year old kids.

Post reply on HN