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Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

nature.com

21–30 of 33 posts

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#21
>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years”

>> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons"

Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#22

>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years” >> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons" Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

Publish too early and you get people assuming that you're a crank because you haven't done the research yet.

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#23

>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years” >> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons" Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

If the most reasonable explanation for the data is an error in measurement...

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#24

>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years” >> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons" Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

It mostly depends on how close to tenure they are, and how controversial the data is.

e.g. Dan Shechtman, who recently got a nobel for his work in crystallography, was an outcast for a long while because his data did not fit with the prevailing model - to the point that people in his lab refused to peek through his microscope eyeviewer because what he said they will see there should not have been possible.

Read http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jan/06/dan-shechtman... and also http://motherboard.vice.com/read/quasicrystals-are-natures-i... (it's about a lot more, but also talks about Shechtman's history)

There are a few other cases like this: Robin Warren (Ulcer/Helicobacter connection), Barbara McClintock ("Jumping Genes"). The farther back they are, the harder it is to get the real story, but unfortunately Shechtman's story is far from unique.

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#25
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never would have thought the A-10 could become an instrument of science

"The jet will also have its nose-mounted, 30-millimeter cannon removed, opening up more space for scientific instruments." http://blog.ametsoc.org/uncategorized/plane-has-combative-at... Given that it's an A-10, it might be more accurate to say that the cannon is having its aircraft removed.

    Given that it's an A-10, it might be more accurate
    to say that the cannon is having its aircraft removed.

wow, no kidding...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger#/media/File:GAU-8...

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#26

>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years” >> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons" Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

I just completed a degree in physics from his university, actually. I can think of a few reasons:

1. He wanted to be 100% sure about the data and not rush it, especially if it could be an error with the instruments

2. He has funding for other projects that needed to be worked on in the mean time, and didn't have a lot of time to devote to this work (this can make #1 take longer)

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#27

>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years” >> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons" Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

Yes, in fields where precision is prized above speed, experimentalists can sit on controversial results for a long time looking for the cause of a discrepancy.

If I tell you that General Relativity is fine, and Einstein's a little more right, you might be impressed and give me a job. If I report that there's something unexpected about gravity at distances less than a millimeter, and I'm not absolutely correct, it might end my career.

Irreversibly-unblinded blind experiments are a technical way to solve this problem (I just unblinded my thesis work a week ago. Gravity turned out fine, after a clerical glitch.), but it does not solve the social stigma that can be attached to someone who has made a measurement ultimately found to be incorrect.

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#28

>> “This was so strange that we sat on this observation for several years” >> "We tried for five years to model the production of the positrons" Why would a scientist withhold data for 6 years? How typical is it for scientists to not reveal data until they can explain it using current models? I would think that Dwyer would have rushed to publicize such fascinating results.

Depends on many things, but if the data appears "controversial yet conclusive" then you investigate more deeply until you have ruled out just about anything else. Long time ago, I was part of a research team that sat on a 3.5 sigma result that only got stronger when we got more restrictive with the data set. We ran for two more years looking for other explanations. I was in grad school and could only think "why don't we publish?!?!" but the more experienced folks won out and upon further review, no Nobel Prizes were awarded and the reputations and funding remained in place. I think the adage "you only get to cry wolf! once" applies here.

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#29
post #14
post #2

This is fascinating. I've only ever really though of antimatter forming in the early universe, at the edges of black holes, and in particle accelerators. I love the thought of them forming in thunderclouds as well, and I'm quite curious to hear about the followup investigations.

Bananas are a weak source of antimatter [0] [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-40

So are human bodies. I can't remember the math right now, but several times an hour your body will produce a positron.

Re: Rogue antimatter found in thunderclouds

#30
post #3
post #2

This is fascinating. I've only ever really though of antimatter forming in the early universe, at the edges of black holes, and in particle accelerators. I love the thought of them forming in thunderclouds as well, and I'm quite curious to hear about the followup investigations.

Never would have thought the A-10 could become an instrument of science

I'd love to have been present at the first conversation where that became a plan. "Well, what's tougher than the plane we've already got? Wait.... What's the toughest plane in the sky? An A-10? Right. Who do we have to talk with to get one of them?"

I'm a surprised that the plan isn't to use a UAV. Small things can be really tough, are subject to smaller gradient-driven forces, and, if the airframe comes apart, a brave pilot won't have to die.

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