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Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

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Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#51

Post by DanBC »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #29
seren wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. It is more complex than that. There is no on one side "good religions" and on the other side "bad religions". It is rather a combination of social and economics factors (education, poverty, exposure to other cultures, frustration, feeling of injustice (real or imagined), corruption, etc) The debate does not really interest m…

That's just the usual faux complexity and "fair and balanced" smokescreen. Any religion that fundamentally doesn't tolerate the existence of other religions and calls its followers to slaughter those who don't convert is "bad religion". Islam is a "bad religion". There is a fundamental difference between the violent excesses of an ideology, an ideology than almost inevitably leads to violent excesses and an ideology…

> Any religion that fundamentally doesn't tolerate the existence of other religions and calls its followers to slaughter those who don't convert is "bad religion"

Christianity is a bad religion. See the genocide of Bosnian muslims by Serb christians during the Bosnian genocide. (1995 approx)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_in_the_Bosnian...

Christianity is a bad religion. See the murder of muslims by Christians in Central African Republic. (2014, ongoing) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african...

I'm interested in how you're going to contort this to say that these genocides of non-Christians by Christians is somehow different to the massacres you've mentioned.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#54

Post by themartorana »

brlewis wrote: post #33
themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

Religion is a pretense for violence, not the original motivation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pape#Dying_to_Win Human power structures are what you should fear. A human in a powerful position will be motivated to silence voices that threaten that power.

I fear them, too :)

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#55

Post by seren »

chroma wrote: post #27
seren wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. It is more complex than that. There is no on one side "good religions" and on the other side "bad religions". It is rather a combination of social and economics factors (education, poverty, exposure to other cultures, frustration, feeling of injustice (real or imagined), corruption, etc) The debate does not really interest m…

I totally agree that Mormonism used to be a rather terrible and violent religion. But please notice that you had to go back over 150 years to find such an atrocity committed by the Mormons. Their religion has changed drastically since then, thanks to collisions with secularism. Christianity used to be more barbarous as well, but centuries of progress have tamed it significantly. Let me give a more obvious example of…

> Do you honestly think there is any religion besides Islam that would raise such security concerns if mocked in a Broadway musical?

In 2015, I can't think of any other. But I don't think there is something fundamentally and radically different with Islam as its core. In some country, you could not mock the official religion or the (despotic) head of state either.

I used to believe that some religions were exempt of violence, but since I learned about "Buddhism fundamentalism" I am much more circumspect.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#56

Post by Bladegunner »

madez wrote: post #28
krig wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disgusting. Other religions are perfectly capable of inspiring similar acts. Look at all the atrocities committed throughout history in the name of christianity: The imperial conquests of Africa and America were conducted in the name of spreading christianity and with the blessing of the church. American fundamentalists regularly murder abortion doctors in the name of religion. Breivik is a "christian warrior" defend…

Disgusting. Other religions are perfectly capable of inspiring similar acts. Though I'm not at all friends of religions in general, the Abrahamic religions are definitely of the more violent and dangerous kind. Sure, killing is part of human nature. Just some religions motivate more to do it than others.

umm.. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-dozens-of-rohingya-muslims-ma...

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#57

Post by themartorana »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #42
themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

How do you reconcile this with the fact that religion seems to be intrinsic to human culture? >Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive >to the larger population, in the long run.

The same way I do with the belief that the Sun revolves around the Earth, or that the Earth is flat. They are based off of early attempts to explain the unknown or the unexplainable (especially death), and recognized by a few as a fantastic way to hold influence and sway (and iron-fisted rule) over the general population.

We learned the Earth wasn't the center of the universe (a fact Religion had a hard time letting go of) and that the Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth. We grow as a species with knowledge we obtain. Left completely uneducated and alone, I believe religion would spring up as quickly as it did before - but now we have the benefit of vast amounts of knowledge at our fingertips.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#58

Post by mbrock »

themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

"Destructive in the long run" is nearly empty of content. You could trivially make the same claim about the steam engine. (Industry leads to pollution leads to disaster.)

Organized anything is powerful and dangerous. Organized goverment, organized commerce, organized labor, organized rationalism, organized kittens. Animals are scary and dangerous, humans most of all.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#59

Post by dghf »

cygx wrote: post #46
dghf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any religion that fundamentally doesn't tolerate the existence of other religions and calls its followers to slaughter those who don't convert is "bad religion". Islam is a "bad religion". Well, if that's what Islam calls its followers to do, it's a good job most of those followers don't pay any attention. Even Iran permits Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians to worship within its borders: they are subject to discrim…

You're aware what happens to apostates in Iran? Also note that there are special allowances made for people of the Book, so Jews and Christians are not quite as bad off as others, theologically speaking.

Yes, I'm aware of the penalties for apostasy in Iran, and that the toleration shown to Jews and Christians is not extended to other faiths (it would seem the Bahá'í get a particularly rough time of it).

But the comment I was replying to made a blanket statement that Islam calls for the slaughter and forced conversion of those of other religions, when the facts simply don't bear that out. Yes, some Muslim individuals and groups do hold to such an extreme interpretation of Islam; and media reports do suggest that most religiously inspired killings are committed by Muslims. But most Muslims don't hold such a stance, and most Muslim countries do allow at least some measure of religious toleration -- even a theocracy like Iran.

The most notable exception, of course, is the West's ally Saudi Arabia.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#60

Post by probably_wrong »

ramblerman wrote: post #30
seesomesense wrote: post #3

Religion of peace and all that...

Why is it taboo to mock a religion? I'm genuinely curious about the downvotes.

It goes against HN's commenting policy of putting arguments above insults. I also think it's not productive, does not lead to a productive discussion, and displays gratuitous negativity.
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