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Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

blog.elementary.io

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Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#41

Post by colechristensen »

rlpb wrote: post #21

It troubles me when I see statements like "an entire operating system that has taken years of development and refinement" and "However, developing software has a huge cost", but there's no mention of the money they're collecting going to the developers of Ubuntu, Debian and upstreams that surely together comprise the majority of the work that they're referring to. Basing their wording on the huge development cost of…

Consider also, quite importantly, that a large volume of the work done on any Linux-based operating system is and has been done entirely without money changing hands.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#42

Post by kuschku »

orik wrote: post #22

Here's a mirror of the original version of this blog post. I'd like point out a couple of quotes. https://web.archive.org/web/20150211134734/http://blog.eleme... >We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software. Elementary's self-important attitude has and continues to completely baffle me. People joke about ElementaryOS being just Ubuntu + Pantheon Sh…

With the shit they’ve been doing, someone should just fork all their packages, and provide them as a nice set of packages for standard Ubuntu. Maybe we could even see an eBuntu (like Kubuntu, Xubuntu) with 15.10?

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#43

Post by SunShiranui »

orik wrote: post #22

Here's a mirror of the original version of this blog post. I'd like point out a couple of quotes. https://web.archive.org/web/20150211134734/http://blog.eleme... >We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software. Elementary's self-important attitude has and continues to completely baffle me. People joke about ElementaryOS being just Ubuntu + Pantheon Sh…

I don't think the fact that elementary OS builds upon Ubuntu (and others upstream projects) has any relevance to whether or not one should pay for elementary OS. Those upstream developers have each made a decision regarding their licensing and financing models, so there's no obligaton for elementary to pay them, especially considering how elementary is a much smaller reality than other open source software.

With that said, according to elementary a good part of the donations they receive goes towards bug bounties, which are not limited to elementary OS itself but are also assigned to upstream projects.

Without getting hung up on phrases like "cheating the system", which is admittedly poor wording, I do agree with the base premise of their blog post: open source development has to be sustainable and they have chosen to ask the users directly for a contribution.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#44

Post by toyg »

nubela wrote: post #19

Why don't you include the payment WITHIN the system? I wouldn't pay before I try eOS, it is only if I stick and use it, will I consider paying.

I'd go further and say that opensource distributions should all have a standard customizable package that will "nag" users after a certain amount of hours from first boot. The package could spring a pop-up if X is running, or send an email to root@ (or whatever the "admin" user is). If done well, I bet a lot of users wouldn't mind dropping $5 or $10 -- probably more than you get by doing the occasional donation drive.

In fact, some good soul could get together the main actors (Debian, Ubuntu, Arch) and set up a shared infrastructure that will provide a common flow for this revenue stream (payment UI, merchant accounts etc), sharing fixed costs.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#45

Post by SunShiranui »

ekianjo wrote: post #34
orik wrote: post #22

Here's a mirror of the original version of this blog post. I'd like point out a couple of quotes. https://web.archive.org/web/20150211134734/http://blog.eleme... >We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software. Elementary's self-important attitude has and continues to completely baffle me. People joke about ElementaryOS being just Ubuntu + Pantheon Sh…

> Elementry's Dev team doesn't pay for Ubuntu, they don't pay for the Kernel or GNU Tools Yeah, totally agree - no matter how much they do, their work is close to nil compared to what was accomplished because of GNU tools, Linux kernel work and Ubuntu specific improvements made over the past xx years before ElementaryOS. It's like they are only in for the money, which does not sit very well with this kind of communit…

While the amount of work those upstream projects have contributed is indeed monumental, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss elementary OS' contribution to the free software operating system landscape.

I think their work in providing a good UX for GNU\Linux operating systems is admirable and it's a very important step to really make something most would be happy to use.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#46

Post by hueving »

ikurei wrote: post #33
orik wrote: post #22

Here's a mirror of the original version of this blog post. I'd like point out a couple of quotes. https://web.archive.org/web/20150211134734/http://blog.eleme... >We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software. Elementary's self-important attitude has and continues to completely baffle me. People joke about ElementaryOS being just Ubuntu + Pantheon Sh…

I don't disagree with what you said, but I'd like to comment on a few points. >We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software. (Auch, reading that hurt; still...) There they didn't say users are cheating for not paying them , but for not paying in general. Also consider that The Linux Foundation, the FSF, Canonical... all have way bigger communities a…

It's their fault for screwing up their business model so much that they have to resort to attacking their users. There is little to defend here.

I have never seen a project succeed that tries to trick or guilt you into giving money. Making users feel like shit is bad UX.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#47

Post by rspeer »

toyg wrote: post #44
nubela wrote: post #19

Why don't you include the payment WITHIN the system? I wouldn't pay before I try eOS, it is only if I stick and use it, will I consider paying.

I'd go further and say that opensource distributions should all have a standard customizable package that will "nag" users after a certain amount of hours from first boot. The package could spring a pop-up if X is running, or send an email to root@ (or whatever the "admin" user is). If done well, I bet a lot of users wouldn't mind dropping $5 or $10 -- probably more than you get by doing the occasional donation drive…

... just like all those people who paid for WinZip and mIRC?

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#48

Post by hueving »

toyg wrote: post #44
nubela wrote: post #19

Why don't you include the payment WITHIN the system? I wouldn't pay before I try eOS, it is only if I stick and use it, will I consider paying.

I'd go further and say that opensource distributions should all have a standard customizable package that will "nag" users after a certain amount of hours from first boot. The package could spring a pop-up if X is running, or send an email to root@ (or whatever the "admin" user is). If done well, I bet a lot of users wouldn't mind dropping $5 or $10 -- probably more than you get by doing the occasional donation drive…

This will alienate developers that don't want to work on a distro that is a cash grab.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#49

Post by SunShiranui »

toyg wrote: post #44
nubela wrote: post #19

Why don't you include the payment WITHIN the system? I wouldn't pay before I try eOS, it is only if I stick and use it, will I consider paying.

I'd go further and say that opensource distributions should all have a standard customizable package that will "nag" users after a certain amount of hours from first boot. The package could spring a pop-up if X is running, or send an email to root@ (or whatever the "admin" user is). If done well, I bet a lot of users wouldn't mind dropping $5 or $10 -- probably more than you get by doing the occasional donation drive…

I don't think that's a very good idea usability wise. I certainly don't like being interrupted during my work with requests for donations.

Re: Payments – Why we make you type "$0"

#50

Post by SunShiranui »

Shivetya wrote: post #20
TorKlingberg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they would lose 99.875% of their userbase. The support forums would dry up, there would be fewer advocates etc. A Linux distro needs a critical mass of users.

still comes across as a dick move to have people enter the zero. making people feel guilty for an allowed act is just dumb if you are trying to establish a working relationship

I don't think having to type out "0" is that difficult of a choice.
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