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Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#21
post #14

Well, it depends on what you mean by "law startup." There are plenty of document-processing startups that help with what lawyers call e-discovery. There are also some startups that will help you do some standard legal tasks, like incorporate in Delaware and issue stock. I think one of those is Clerky, a YC-funded company. Avvo is a matchmaking/profile aggregation startup that comes to mind. I worked with Fenwick and…

We're a legal startup! (https://www.justiserv.com)

It's hard to innovate in the legal space because of how fluid and complicated the law tends to be, and how arbitrary lawyer's pricing schemes can be.

In response to thoughts:

* Lawyers are definitely risk-averse, but they're feeling the shift towards online services as much as any other industry. Also, young attorneys are willing to adopt technology, and have more trouble finding jobs, especially since large law firms are breaking up.

* True, but the magnitude we're talking about is still thousands of dollars per case.

* Actually, we've found bar associations eager to help connect their lawyers with new opportunities.

* Definitely - there still isn't an adequate alternative to a good, well trained lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#23
I'm jurist cum developer in Belgium, I spent a decade in this niche:

* Jurists are used to face extraordinary difficulties when researching things. Throw them a monstrous contractor-built Adobe Flex application as a search engine, and they'll be all the happier: still better than hundreds of paper volumes. The erudite knowledge of where and how to search is part of their expertise.

* In their mind, it's the content that matters. The form may be prettier and easier to use, they will hardly notice. As a law student, we had to read and print things presented like this (and this is a extremely gentle example): http://goo.gl/6Uz48Q Years later, I built my own app, where the same content is presented like this (see print preview to see what a little interest in the subject can produce) : http://www.etaamb.be/fr/2015201838.html It doesn't get noticed a lot, although it attracts a lot of visits.

* The sector is cornered with not too innovative academics and conservative publisher companies with vested interests, even more conservative public institutions and associations (lawyers, notaries,... ) and extremely conservative laws. Kickstarting something like an internet app for last wills and testaments without the support of most of them is impossible (been there, done that): there is no place for disruption without institutional support.

* Speaking of institutional support: I only managed to implement an electronic proceedings platform in Belgium (still the only one) because I happen to work at a federal institution. It's been instituted by way of Royal Decree: not really the same as the apple store. It was a fortuitous meeting of ambition and competence: in other settings contractors have to be engaged, of which only the cheapest get selected, resulting in utter crap and millions of wasted taxpayer's money.

* It's very country-specific. Laws and customs stop at national borders, not even speaking of fragmented federal states and small legal districts. You could write a successful app in your country, but other countries have their own hurdles, not event speaking of the not-invented-here bias (As far as I know, technological exchanges are virtually non-existent, even between countries who share a common judicial structure).

Plenty of other stuff in my mind, but still, the sector is ripe for improvement; the internet revolution has just started reaching the outskirts of the legal world. The ways laws are voted, how proceedings and courts work, how doctrinal knowledge is made available and legal professionals joinable, there's plenty of low-hanging fruit. Fruit regulated by state law and pretty tenacious customs ;)

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#24
Perhaps pay and lifestyle are already very good, why bother risking that for a startup that might fail or will, at the very least, cost a lot of time.

That and the probably rather conservative nature of people in this profession are probably some of the reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#25
We at Beagle Inc (http://beagle.ai) are building a product that uses NLP to make contracts easier to understand, bringing comprehension from 0 to 80% in seconds. There's also a collaborative piece which allows you to make critical changes and see redlines. I'd say our analysis focuses on a relatively different problem than other legal tech startups are addressing. Its been a substantial technical challenge to bring our analysis quality to a good level and its constantly improving. Aside from that, law can be a relatively daunting space, so I believe that having a leader who knows their way around the law (and tech) is critical. I'd suggest that these personalities enjoy well-paying jobs at law firms and a special few would consider the startup route.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#26
Startups generally solve pains that the founders have experienced. To experience the pains of the legal profession you need to have worked in it for a while, but if you've done that then you're probably already quite well paid and maybe see the paperwork as a necessity. Or at least see it as something that you can charge a lot for. In short, there aren't many law startups because the people who suffer what we regard as a pain don't see it as a pain.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#27

I'm the lead developer at Contractually (a Vancouver-based startup): http://www.contractual.ly . We take contracts out of Microsoft Word and email and put them in an online format that understands the business data and process that is involved. We're solving problems form the low level (version tracking, redlining, commenting) to the high level (renewal reminders, workflows, tagging, reporting). We're currently focus…

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Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#28
I suspect that it is because law service advocates (and most professional groups) fiercely protect themselves through licensing and watch-groups (normally "boards").

If you would like to prove this to yourself pull up your state (not CA, CA is weird) statutes concerning attorney licensure and read the entry and maintenance requirements to "join the club". You will find them draconian and easily withdrawn for minor offenses.

You will see this in all groups that have advocates from lawyers to hairdressers. It is self-preservation.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few law startups?

#29
I think law startups is a vague term that can account for many points of view. Startups for people 'using' the law or startups for those 'practicing' the law.

For the past few years I've been making apps such as iJuror (http://www.ijurorapp.com) specifically for attorneys and law firms. Adoption has been pretty significant but the industry is a bit more conservative when it comes to technology. Other apps such as TrialPad and TranscriptPad have been successful as well.

ClearView Social (http://clearviewsocial.com) is another startup in the legal space that helps attorneys and law firms grow their presence on social media.

I think we'll see more startups in the space in the coming years too.

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