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Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

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Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#251

Post by delish » Mon, May 11, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

RankingMember wrote: post #54

This reminds me of Bill Gates' email documenting his experiencing trying to install and run Windows MovieMaker (read from the bottom): http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/files/library/2003Jangat...

I am amazed--positively--by this email exchange.

Scroll to the bottom, and read Bill Gates giving a Steve Jobs-ian second-by-second critique of user experience. I remember software sucking in 2003 just as Gates describes. I have new respect for him. I especially love his line

> These 45 names are totally confusing. These names make stuff like: C:\Documents and Settings\billg\My Documents\My Pictures seem clear.

Ha! I always thought Documents and Settings\me\My Documents was weird.

He also says:

> What is there? The following garbage is there. Microsoft Autoupdate Exclusive test package, Microsoft Autoupdate Reboot test package, Microsoft Autoupdate testpackage1. Microsoft Autoupdate testpackage2, Microsoft Autoupdate Test package3. Someone decided to trash the one part of Windows that was usable? The file system is no longer usable. The registry is not usable. This program listing was one sane place but now it is all crapped up.

Wow. I mean I found Linux's pieces made ten times more sense than their Windows equivalents. And Bill Gates in 2003 shared my sentiment (not relative to Linux of course)!

Another person in the email chain lists problems with Windows Update: > Critical updates that aren’t really critical--if you're machine is behind a firewall many just aren’t critical.

I'm glad somebody identified that issue. The computer "lying" to people causes a lot of computer-ennui. The computer says to someone, "Install this critical security update" but husband/partner/IT guy says, "Eh, don't worry about." In the aggregate I think this hurts people's desire to learn more about computing.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#252

Post by mikestew » Mon, May 11, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

RankingMember wrote: post #54

This reminds me of Bill Gates' email documenting his experiencing trying to install and run Windows MovieMaker (read from the bottom): http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/files/library/2003Jangat...

Say what you will about the email exchange, I think that is the most excellent problem report you'll ever see out of a C-level exec. It's the steps-to-repro/expected/observed report pattern that even seasoned testers too often can't be bothered with. Gates even goes so far as to give timings instead of estimates: "...six minutes" vs. "after a long time". We can all learn something, especially you, Little Ms. "I've been a tester for ten years and know how to write a bug report".

The replies are horribly disappointing, however. A bunch of managers chiming in without providing actionable, useful solutions so as to raise their "visibility". Nothing in that exchange (and granted, that's just the one we're privy to) encourages me to think the problem will get fixed.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#253

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, May 11, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #249

TeMPOraL wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe, just maybe, it suggests that the author is right and said out loud what many of us secretly think.

Feeling hate and spreading hate towards technology domain that is known as "web" and its ecosystem because of trite and banal grievances with some of the products of some corporations is "right"? If that is so I don't want to be a member of a toxic community that lacks meaningful perspective on the evolutionary, path-dependent origins of problems with "web technologies".

You call it "spreading hate", and I'll say that anyone for whom the brokenness of the web and mobile is not self-evident is suffering from a heavy case of Stockholm syndrome.

It takes having a "meaningful perspective on the evolutionary, path-dependent origins of problems" to notice how insanely fucked up web/mobile is on so many levels - from absurd amount of crap we have to deal with as users to the fashion show IT industry is.

The first step to fixing a problem is noticing and admitting it.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#254

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, May 11, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

grkvlt wrote: post #245

cliveowen wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lollipop is just a bad, bad update. Tap the square button and close two apps at the same time. If you did everything right, now your phone says that Android UI failed. This has been going on since day one. Day one. Which was sometime in November. Their Hangouts app sucks. I don't know how people in the U.S. use it, but here people use it only for SMS, and they crammed everything in that so it's hard to do the main fu…

Am I just desensetized to quality or, do I put up with a lot more issues than I should, or do I not have the same high standards as everyone else? As far as I can tell, Lollipop (aka Android 5.0) works brilliantly, and everyone thatI recall speaking to who has it is also similarly pleased. To call it a failure seems to be vastly overstating the viewpoints of a minority of customers. My Sony Z3 Compact and LG G Watch…

> Am I just desensetized to quality or, do I put up with a lot more issues than I should, or do I not have the same high standards as everyone else?

Hard to say. My best guess is that you put up with a lot more issues than you should. The mobile is so utterly broken that we all have to get used to it to stay sane.

But from my personal experience, and I'm not saying that it applies to you personally, I've noticed that many people just don't give a fuck about the looks. Go and look at how majority of people write letters, or even how they write on the Internet. The amount of typos and overall lack of style is so big that 60 years ago a typical reader would get a heart attack.

Looking at the world as it is today, I start to feel that it's me who has insanely high standards because I want things to look and feel nice, not just barely work.

----

Oh, and about Lollipop - I've seen so many cases where something utterly broken on my device worked fine on everyone elses and reverse, that I learned to appreciate that things just really don't work the same even on the same brand of hardware. It's entirely possible that you and your friends have a good experience while for some reason, GPs device-software combination is broken. Hell, I personally never had any issues with Windows Vista, and almost no one believes me it's possible.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#255

Post by peterwaller » Mon, May 11, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

fsck--off wrote: post #237

andrewstuart2 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really appreciate how even-keeled he is despite being utterly frustrated with the experience. I think the worst he said was "crap," which I find refreshing. That's something I hope I bring to every team I'm on.

Bill mellowed out as he got older. He used to be infamous for cursing during meetings. Joel Spolsky has an amusing story about it: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html

Fantastic read. I needed that, thanks for sharing.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#256

Post by vdaniuk » Mon, May 11, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #253

vdaniuk wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feeling hate and spreading hate towards technology domain that is known as "web" and its ecosystem because of trite and banal grievances with some of the products of some corporations is "right"? If that is so I don't want to be a member of a toxic community that lacks meaningful perspective on the evolutionary, path-dependent origins of problems with "web technologies".

You call it "spreading hate", and I'll say that anyone for whom the brokenness of the web and mobile is not self-evident is suffering from a heavy case of Stockholm syndrome. It takes having a "meaningful perspective on the evolutionary, path-dependent origins of problems" to notice how insanely fucked up web/mobile is on so many levels - from absurd amount of crap we have to deal with as users to the fashion show IT…

Writing, sharing or upvoting "I fucking hate X" posts doesn't contribute anything to "the first step to fixing a problem".

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#257

Post by TheLoneWolfling » Mon, May 11, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

_lce0 wrote: post #141

snarfy wrote: post #91

The space at the end of the password entry was found in QA testing. Since we are an agile shop and run two week sprints that bug was left in and put on the backlog to be prioritized later. Gotta release every two weeks, even if it's utter crap. As long as the PBIs are completed, who cares about the users? It's a sad day when I have to sneak bug fixes that annoy me in on my free time, but this seems to be the norm in…

well .. that bugfix have associated a few risks.. 1. let's suppose a user have a password: (note the space) " 123" 2. also you store the password using some hashing function, which prevents you from knowing the password. 3. two weeks later the bugfix goes live, the user cannot longer access the service. Also, you cannot easily estimate how much benefit/annoyed users your _fix_ will endup having .. which makes it a hi…

This is about 2fa, not passwords.

With 2fa, you control the allowed character set, and as such can make sure that what you mention cannot happen.

Mind you, 2fa is stupid for a whole lot of other reasons, but that's another matter.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#258

Post by Nemcue » Mon, May 11, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #195

Nemcue wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because Google was and is still an engineering organisation. For the most part they still don't understand UX or design, and when they do it's in some incredibly maligned product that no one wants.

I'm willing to bet on the opposite. I think it's engineers who understand how the product should work to be useful, but it's the sales and design people which screw this up because "hey, it's cooler / more shiny / will attract new people".

Ah, yes — because engineers left to their own devices make products that are highly functional and polished.

Much like game studios left to their own devices by publishers make super popular game classics.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#259

Post by panglott » Mon, May 11, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

rnernento wrote: post #48

Can Marissa Mayer fix Yahoo maps? Google maps have become unusable on most of my devices, I thought I was alone...

I've mostly switched over to the Apple Maps app at home, Google Maps is such a brick. Not sure yet what to use on Windows, where Google Maps is still semi-functional if weird-looking.

Re: Did I ever mention that I fucking hate the fucking web

#260

Post by awkward » Mon, May 11, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #241

awkward wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And folks have been trained to think that everyone not coding for en-us is double lazy.

There are several different ways, say a currency dropdown, that could hint on how to parse free-text input. However, blaming the user for doing what makes sense is not helpful.

I think we're in violent agreement here - I'm trying to get across that "just use locale" doesn't necessarily mean that you're done your UI.

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