Live data from Hacker News

Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

fivethirtyeight.com

51–60 of 61 posts

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#51
post #42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good read, thanks. Can you comment on further Watson developments since that time?

No, as I am a spectator to the technology. I work on other things. (Parallel and distributed systems and languages for online stream processing.)

Do you work with the ibm infosphere streams?

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#52
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as I am a spectator to the technology. I work on other things. (Parallel and distributed systems and languages for online stream processing.)

Do you work with the ibm infosphere streams?

Indeed I do. My contact information is on my webpage, which is in my profile.

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems harsh that so many people downvoted this, I dig the Slumdog Millionaire reference!

I believe that is because many people don't want comment section in Hacker News turn into the one in Reddit, which consist of mostly jokes, pop culture references...things that doesn't really contribute to the discussion.

Got it, thanks!

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#54

> So we (or, more precisely, FiveThirtyEight’s lead lifestyle writer Walt Hickey) ran a simulation that flipped a weighted coin with a 97.9 percent chance of landing on a Jennings win. Every time it did, we “flipped the coin” again. We did 1 million of these simulations. This is just a binomial distribution. Did they seriously estimate the answer instead of solving it analytically?

There's the didactic argument where they did it analytically but explained the intuition of the analysis mechanically. There's also the oversimplification argument where they actually did some kind of much larger sampling from a trained decision tree but then boiled the mechanism down to something easily understood by casual readers more interested in "Jeopardy!" than statistics.

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#55
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They made it that way on purpose, so it's more entertaining for the audience. If you could buzz in early, the players would almost always buzz in before Alex Trebek finished reading the question, which makes it less interesting for the audience. With the wait-to-buzz-in rule, the audience gets an chance to understand and maybe think of the answer before the contestants speak.

You could allow contestants to buzz in as soon as possible, but have the system wait until Alex has finished reading the answer (remember, it's Jeopardy! so the contestant gives the question ;-P) before it indicates which player buzzed in first. Yes, there might be an audible clicking sound in the background while he's talking, but it would make the game more about speed of recall rather than hand-eye coordination.

All this would do would change the timing of when the buzzer gets pressed. All of the players would start to buzz in as soon as Alex started reading, knowing that he would finish the answer and they would have a chance to think before he finished reading it.

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#56
post #41

> Here’s how we figured this out. We assumed that Jennings headed into Final Jeopardy with at most one other player in contention to win. Then we assumed that in order for Jennings to lose, this sequence of events has to happen: The game must not be locked up, Jennings must get the Final Jeopardy question wrong, and the other contender must get it right. We used his stats across all 75 of his games, not just his 74 w…

When you say that they're not independent, do you mean that the probability that the person knows the Final Jeopardy question is higher because they've managed to keep Ken Jennings from running away with it (i.e. they're better than the average person Jennings has faced)?

Just checking my understanding.

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#57
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traditional College Bowl / Quizbowl technique is (a) to assign a 50% penalty to the early buzz with an incorrect answer, and (b) since it's game with teams and has two teams, the rest of your team is disqualified from answering the question, leaving the opposite team with lots of time to think about it (and subsequently secure access to the 3x bonus question following every toss-up question.) Which is lots of fun…

Ack, we ran up against a "celebrity" reader in the final rounds of a Quizbowl tournament who didn't stop reading reliably when the other team buzzed in. I don't know how, but the other team was really good at taking advantage of this, buzzing in before the reader had given enough information to answer the question, and then answering after he'd finished the sentence. Our team got steamrolled.

In Highschool Quizbowl, I'd take advantage of the fact that most untrained readers have a hard time stopping mid-syllable, or even mid-word, so any time there was a question that hinged on a single word, such as a world capital question, I'd buzz in on the first letter of the word, and they'd usually get out 2 syllables before stopping, providing enough information.

Q: What is the capital of L-(BUZZ)-ithu-- [stops reading].

A. Vilnius.

But if they had had really good reaction time and stopped on L--, I'd have been hosed. Latvia, Lithuania, Liechtenstein, Libya, Liberia, etc...

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#58
post #4

It never occurred to me that optimized buzzer timing was such a big part of Watson's dominance. Kinda takes some of the romance out of it.

Something I never liked about jeopardy is that you can't buzz in at any time. I played on a trivia team at the high school level, and most questions were structured like: "This American architect, born in 1867, is known for works such as the Robie House, the Guggenheim Museum, and Fallingwater." So they typically feed you information from least to most well known, and you can buzz in at any time. This rewards players…

Jeopardy! used to work like this. Players would often buzz in immediately, hoping they would know the answer to the question (sorry, the "question" for the "answer" [1]). Since Alex Trebek still finished reading the clue, and most of the players knew most of the answers most of the time, this was a winning strategy. The producers changed to the current design in 1985. [2]

[1]: This has always struck me as an idiotic gimmick, especially since the wording rarely makes sense. No one would ever respond to the question "Who was George Washington?" with the answer "This man served as the first President of the United States."

[2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeopardy!#CITEREFTrebekBarso...

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#59
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ack, we ran up against a "celebrity" reader in the final rounds of a Quizbowl tournament who didn't stop reading reliably when the other team buzzed in. I don't know how, but the other team was really good at taking advantage of this, buzzing in before the reader had given enough information to answer the question, and then answering after he'd finished the sentence. Our team got steamrolled.

In Highschool Quizbowl, I'd take advantage of the fact that most untrained readers have a hard time stopping mid-syllable, or even mid-word, so any time there was a question that hinged on a single word, such as a world capital question, I'd buzz in on the first letter of the word, and they'd usually get out 2 syllables before stopping, providing enough information. Q: What is the capital of L-(BUZZ)-ithu-- [stops re…

The team that beat us was doing more

Q: What is the capital of (BUZZ) Lithuania?

A: Vilnius.

Re: Why Ken Jennings’s ‘Jeopardy’ Streak Is Nearly Impossible to Break

#60
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They made it that way on purpose, so it's more entertaining for the audience. If you could buzz in early, the players would almost always buzz in before Alex Trebek finished reading the question, which makes it less interesting for the audience. With the wait-to-buzz-in rule, the audience gets an chance to understand and maybe think of the answer before the contestants speak.

You know how annoying it is when someone tries to finish your sentence and they are completely wrong? I imagine Jeopardy without the rule to be unwatchable.

You mean not even slightly annoying? Seriously, it turns out the degree to which this bothers people varies enormously. I'm not sure how much it's personality vs subculture, but in my branch of reality, someone completing my sentence (even if they're wrong) is a mark of enthusiasm and engagement.

My wife, and my neighbor's husband, feel like it's the height of rudeness.

This is kind of the canonical example people can understand for the platinum vs the golden rule, as it happens.

Post reply on HN