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Chile is introducing free higher education

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Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#91

Post by rospaya »

MCRed wrote: post #47

I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons. First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their s…

> Chile is the south american economic miracle as a result.

Is miracle the right word? Their 4% growth is impressive, but GDP per capita is on par with Eastern European countries.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#92

Post by dethstar »

MCRed wrote: post #47

I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons. First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their s…

Is higher education public in America? What's with all I'm hearing about student loans then? It seems that without that, your whole argument falls apart.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#93

Post by yogthos »

MCRed wrote: post #47

I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons. First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their s…

Your assertions are simply not supported by evidence from countries that already have free higher education.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#94

Post by galfarragem »

MCRed wrote: post #74
illumen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this good for the poor people who can not afford it? Will it make a difference? Certainly. Will this result in a more highly skilled, and a more highly educated population? Yes. People should still be able to afford private schools if they can now. The American idea that you can't mix socialism and capitalism is absurd! (urg, just saying these words makes me feel like I'm using outdated old ideas from the 1800's!)…

America is a mix of socialism and capitalism, and everywhere that socialism has touched it's been a bad experience. You give a good example in your response: %45 illiteracy only benefits the people who are currently in power. That's your statement, and who is in power? Who controls the schools? The government. How do they benefit? They have a populace which is sheeplike and easily controlled. That's the power dynamic…

From one side you show socialism as the root of all evil, from the other you propose another utopia: home schooling.

>Then they can take a day off or saturday

Do you really believe that this chaotic schedule would ever work? Every parent have to work somewhere else with an agenda that might not fit. And then? One lesson of a particular subject once a month? Once a year?

>Even poor people could do it.

How? As an e.g what would a janitor teach?

>But of course that would threaten the government's schooling system and it's not allowed.

I think most countries would be happy to do it. Maybe not US.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#95

Post by nmrm »

MCRed wrote: post #71
anigbrowl wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have government-sponsored higher ed in many Eurozone countries and I think they do quite a good job at turning out critical independent thinkers. Using the US as your only point of comparison seems somewhat misleading to me - I'm a good bit to the left of you and I also think a lot of US public education is a shambles. However, I think there are multiple complex reasons for that and it's not as simple as 'public f…

Oh, I'd never say there aren't lots of factors. As another person pointed out, culture is a factor too. The US seems to have been in a cultural decline for much of the last 100 years. You can't make direct comparisons, absolutely. But, you can make an argument about incentives and that's what I'm doing. When government is in control you have no choice. You are forced to pay for it and you get what they decide you get…

> The US seems to have been in a cultural decline for much of the last 100 years.

Can you explain what, exactly, you mean by this? Looking back 100 years, I can't help but see an enormous amount of improvement in culture, at least in terms of the tangible impact of culture on the lives of people living in the USA.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#96

Post by HarryHirsch »

rhino369 wrote: post #27
philippnagel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is not that selective. According to the "Bildungsbericht 2014" 50% of all persons eligible to enter tertiary education do so [0]. In 2013 51.7% of people in the relevant age groups (18 - 21) were eligible for enrollment in a tertiary education program [1]. These are just some quickly researched numbers. Feel free to criticize! On a personal note: I am a german student and trust me, even at institutions regar…

25% going to college seems low. In America 63% of people have done some college, higher among those who are younger.

Americans take it for granted that the level of education at American colleges is extremely variable. Cornell is called "college" but Tumbleweed State Technical College is called college, too.

The education one would get out of university in Germany is equivalent to a top-25 college in the US. On that front, the Germans are doing rather well. How many Americans have a degree from a top-25 institution?

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#97

Post by galfarragem »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #90
gyardley wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chile is corrupt from top to bottom. It's true that you can't bribe the cops, and Chileans are very proud of this (primarily because you can bribe the cops in Argentina), but access to opportunity in Chile is almost 100% dependent on who you know. The entire business class has raised nepotism to an art form. While free university education sounds good, even going to a top-ranked school like Universidad de Chile isn't…

> access to opportunity in Chile is almost 100% dependent on who you know isn't this true everywhere? how can you take an opportunity from a person you don't know?

Understand it as: Chile is not a meritocracy.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#98

Post by nico »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #84
nico wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really make sense to forbid profit in education (at least the way the Chilean government does it). The best universities in the world make a lot of money (e.g. Harvard, MIT, Stanford). Opening the educational market should create competition and drive quality up. Of course the market should be regulated, but forbidding profit is not really the way to go.

There is a huge difference between "universities with a lot of money" like Harvard and for-profit universities like Corinthian College.

You are totally right. And universities like Harvard would not be allowed to exist/operate under Chilean law.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#99

Post by jfroma »

the_af wrote: post #63
nazgul wrote: post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

Sorry, this isn't true in Argentina either (someone already mentioned it's not true in Uruguay). We have excellent public and free university. Some of its faculties are very demanding, some are bogged down by endless red tape, but the education level is pretty good (according to who you ask, ranked among the best in South America). And everyone can get into university, no grades from high school requirements. The "hi…

I'm from Argentina (Córdoba) and this is very accurate. I dislike a lot of things in my country but if there is something to be proud of is the universal access to education for everyone and the quality.

There are a lot of things to improve, IMHO some of the plans are a bit outdated and teachers get a low salary.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#100

Post by nmrm2 »

germanier wrote: post #57
rhino369 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25% going to college seems low. In America 63% of people have done some college, higher among those who are younger.

You have to keep in mind that Germany has strong apprenticeship programs which include practical on-the-job training half of the time and vocational school the other half. Those are not included in the numbers above.

The 60ish percent number almost definitely includes community college ("2 year") degrees, which German apprenticeships mirror.

The percentage of Americans with a bachelors degree is closer to 28 percent.

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