"Free" higher education. Somebody is paying for it.
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Chile is introducing free higher education
61–70 of 171 posts
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#62My first thought was "only 27%? The US has a 35% corporate rate and can't afford this". My second thought was "oh, right, the US effective rate is around 12%". How will they actually guarantee they collect this rate, as opposed to just scaring off corporations or having them offshore/tax-haven their way to maintaining profits?
How will they actually guarantee they collect this rate, as opposed to just scaring off corporations or having them offshore/tax-haven their way to maintaining profits?
Exactly, they can't, and it already didn't work. Now they are looking to create additional taxes to collect more money.
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#63People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…
Sorry, this isn't true in Argentina either (someone already mentioned it's not true in Uruguay).
We have excellent public and free university. Some of its faculties are very demanding, some are bogged down by endless red tape, but the education level is pretty good (according to who you ask, ranked among the best in South America). And everyone can get into university, no grades from high school requirements. The "hidden" fee is that university can be pretty demanding, and if you're poor and have to work to support yourself or your family, it's exhausting and very hard to keep up with your studies; this causes many students to drop out.
Here in Argentina there are plenty of private universities to choose if you wish, some cheap, some expensive. Everyone who's honest acknowledges public university has the better quality (with a few exceptions), but some people just can't have a job and afford the time/dedication public education takes, so they pick a private university with lower dedication demands. And that's a perfectly acceptable choice.
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#64I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons. First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their s…
Excuse me, but you're too fast on making conclusions. Also you're totally ignoring the lack of vertical social mobility in the Chilean society because poor people have no chance for education and better jobs for their kids. > It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. This statement is too generalized. But even if it's correct then you can't pinpoint it to education. There's a…
The primary thing inhibiting vertical social mobility in Chile is cultural.[1] I have worked with chilean high schoolers and college students and they have a lot of opportunity that they don't see because they are locked into a specific tract (namely work for a large company.) The only reason poor people would have no chance for education and better jobs for their kids is if government made education illegal. Even poor people can get together and hire people to teach and teach their kids themselveS (imagine home schooling but with a dozen families cooperating)... unless government prevents it.
The internet has made all the information of the world available free... education is cheaper now than at any point in history.
It's true the chilean government is criticized-- I saw the sometimes weekly marches down the blvd of students and communists making noise. That doesn't mean they are right. When you look at Chile's economic development over the past 20 years and its political stability, it's doing better than it's peers. Sure people are criticizing the president, she may be bad, but that's not what I'm talking about.
I think it's silly to say Chile is resource cursed. You would rather the country be poorer? You think economic development is a curse? Yes, it does have low corruption- that's a good thing and that's a sign of a good government, relatively speaking.
[1] This conclusion, by the way, I'm taking from what I was told by people running Startup Chile as the motivation for the program, it may even be in their public website... and it is consistent with my experiences talking to Chileans. I'm not a chilean culture expert by any means!
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#65People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…
If college is free, then admission is strictly on academic grounds. There is nothing wrong with that: in fact, it is ideally the way it should be . If you examine it honestly, you will see that your argument boils down to, "though I'm not rich, and certainly cannot afford private university, I do have some money and that should give me an advantage over applicants who are better qualified, but poorer." By the way, ev…
Exactly. You nailed it. Free universities have indeed this "hidden" fee in my country. Everyone knows that if you are well-off, you'll do better even in our public universities. A lot of poor people simply cannot keep up with working and studying at the same time.
This isn't an argument against public education, but it's evidence that it's not enough. People should be able to take better advantage of this free education.
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#66I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons. First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their s…
We have government-sponsored higher ed in many Eurozone countries and I think they do quite a good job at turning out critical independent thinkers. Using the US as your only point of comparison seems somewhat misleading to me - I'm a good bit to the left of you and I also think a lot of US public education is a shambles.
However, I think there are multiple complex reasons for that and it's not as simple as 'public financing >> intellectual bankruptcy'. Rather, it's a mix of overly-powerful unions, civil war legacy and the extreme politicization of education in the US, a litigation-driven culture, and more. Education in the EU (at least in the western EU) is less politicized and a bit more paternalistic.
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#67People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…
You can have free college without the stupid German segregation system.
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#68Here in Argentina, We have since 1821 the University of Buenos Aires, free of charge. There are many public and free of charge universities across the country. Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Buenos_Aires
It would be interesting to know the impact this has in the country.
Do you know if Argentina has better equality and social mobility because of this? Or if the economy does better as a result? Are there private universities in Argentina? What percentage of the population go to college? and out of those who do, what percentage goes to public/free universities? How does the quality of education at those schools compare to private schools (if there are any)?
Thank you!
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a very generalizing argument. Universities are free (paid by taxes obviously) in Finland, but there is no such thing like what you describe. In here the only prerequisite is that you have finished high school, then you can take the entry exams.. It's also not uncommon for someone to go into a university later in their life. My cs courses had a good bunch of people in their fifties re-educating themselves.
In France you don’t even have any entry exams for universities.
Yes, but everyone takes the baccalaureate exam and that limits the schools to which you can get admission.
Re: Chile is introducing free higher education
#70I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons. First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their s…
I respect your opinions (i've read other comments that you made) but this comment is full of fast conclusions and fallacies. If I could downvote it would be my first downvote ever.