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Chile is introducing free higher education

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Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#41

I'd like to add that right now an even more important discussion in Chile is about the quality of higher education. After the educational laws were modified in the 1980s in order to allow the existence of private universities and technical institutes, many for-profit institutions appeared, even though educational profit is forbidden (institutes found obscure ways to achieve this). A direct consequence of those for-pr…

It doesn't really make sense to forbid profit in education (at least the way the Chilean government does it). The best universities in the world make a lot of money (e.g. Harvard, MIT, Stanford). Opening the educational market should create competition and drive quality up. Of course the market should be regulated, but forbidding profit is not really the way to go.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#42
As a Chilean living in Chile I can tell you this article not accurate and outdated.

There has been enormous troubles trying to implement this reform, last news I had about the current version of the reform was that this "free higher education" was a form of government loan you pay off your job paychecks.

If you read Chilean news, as of yesterday, all the ministers (including the cited interior, education and economy) where asked to step down by the president who faced 70% disproval for a number of other scandals including not holding to this reform original promises. There is a political crisis happening right now and its very unlikely that the education reform launches any soon.

To read about real free higher education ~100 years old, I'd recommend our neighbors of Argentina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Argentina#Higher_E...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_university_reform_of_...

PD. Sorry to "jacket" the article (Chilean expression)

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#43
What this article doesn't mention, and which hasn't been mentioned below, is that Chile's president, Michelle Bachelet, is a socialist. I am 100% in favor of eliminating fees for public universities by increasing state and federal funding. But this means voting for people who have socialist views. You won't get this from the democrats or the republicans, who are both in the pockets of the wealthy, who do not want to be taxed to pay for education for the middle and lower classes. Unless you're willing to say, "I believe in socialist principles, and I believe education should be without direct fees as a matter of principle or human rights, and it should be payed for through progressive income taxes", you won't see this reality in the US. We are far too neoliberal/laissez faire/anti-welfare state to collectively support an initiative like this, and that is a problem, IMO.

Reagan slashed the top marginal income tax rate, we tax capital at a higher rate than labor, and the wealthy have numerous mechanisms for reducing their tax burden through loopholes in the code. Until this is changed, there are a number of policies that sound nice, but which we can't pay for. But at present, the republicans won't go for it, and the democrats won't fight for it.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#44
post #20

i had idea, which lines up with basic income ideas, of treating college attendance just like any other 8-5 job. I.e. tough interview, raises based on performance, annual performance evaluations, firing for not performing well. And "salary" paid by taxes. I get that this is highly unlikely today, but may be when basic income ideas will be more acceptable, something like this could be proposed too.

I don't see how what you describe lines up with basic income.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about the details of the German system In France tuition in Public universities is free Of course it depends on your scores on the Bac and on the Prep school that follows it (to get ready for the exams) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaur%C3%A9at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_pr%C3%A9paratoire_aux_gr...

Prep schools are not for university, they're for "great schools" which is a separate system and pretty much unique to the country. Neither prep schools nor the bac are relevant to universities (outside of having the bac), universities are free-ish and anyone can attend (at least the first year, there's no entrance test)

Prep schools in France can be damn selective as well. And prep schools tend to have contracts with universities so drop out from prep schools can be admitted to universities (they might or might not have to pass an exam for that). Prep schools are somewhat equivalent to the first two years of university, with a bit of literature/philosophy and foreign language classes, but prep schools are much intense and exams are harder (disclaimer: I did prep school and a "Grande Ecole", and and also have an Msc from a University).

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#46
post #36

Many problems with the article: 1) There's no way Chilean education is the most expensive in the world. Tuition for an engineering degree at the best universities in Chile is around USD 5k/year, which is way cheaper than pretty much any university in the US. (edit: in fact here's a ranking, and Chile is not even mentioned on it http://www.businessinsider.com/hsbc-australia-is-the-most-ex... ) 2) The tax hike was a bu…

True.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#47
I lived in Chile for several years. I think this is a bad idea for several reasons.

First off, one of the things that makes Chile great is that its education system is independant of the government. It results in chileans who are markedly better at critical thinking than americans. (While there one of the things I did was work with high school and college students and of course got to know a lot of chileans.) Their schools are all about education and keeping the people sending their kids there happy-- by educating them.

There is a real effect where the person paying the bills calls the shots. When government is paying the bills, turning out good citizens is the goal. This is why the football players are the heroes of most schools and the computer nerds are beat up. This is why schools are enacting absurd zero tolerance policies. This is why standardized tests and teachers tenure and unions are so bad.

There really is something to the market incentive to provide a better experience at lower cost...

The socialists are in power in chile right now but I don't think that will last long, and the reality is the Chilean constitution is pretty well protecting capitalism. Consequently the government runs a surplus does a great job of providing services and mostly stays out of peoples way... and Chile is the south american economic miracle as a result.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#48
post #36

Many problems with the article: 1) There's no way Chilean education is the most expensive in the world. Tuition for an engineering degree at the best universities in Chile is around USD 5k/year, which is way cheaper than pretty much any university in the US. (edit: in fact here's a ranking, and Chile is not even mentioned on it http://www.businessinsider.com/hsbc-australia-is-the-most-ex... ) 2) The tax hike was a bu…

It's the most expensive compared to the average salary in the country.

In response to your other points: Chilean government fails a lot and the president has 25% rating. So at least they're trying to reset the government.

Also you're looking at "virtual" education from NA/EU perspective but Chile is digitized very poorly compared to "on the edge" countries. Online services are like 2001-2003 US ones.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#49
post #36

Many problems with the article: 1) There's no way Chilean education is the most expensive in the world. Tuition for an engineering degree at the best universities in Chile is around USD 5k/year, which is way cheaper than pretty much any university in the US. (edit: in fact here's a ranking, and Chile is not even mentioned on it http://www.businessinsider.com/hsbc-australia-is-the-most-ex... ) 2) The tax hike was a bu…

I came in here to make exactly your points 2 and 3. They cannot be overstated: they haven't even gotten the budget math to work out yet.

Given unlimited resources, sure, who wouldn't want free universities. But making it work within our real-life constraints means something else is going to suffer for that, and in today's reality it's going to be really hard to make the case that this is a priority. (Especially when many high school graduates are still basically illiterate, so only elite graduates will make it in, which means we'll be further subsidizing the elite).

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#50
post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

If college is free, then admission is strictly on academic grounds. There is nothing wrong with that: in fact, it is ideally the way it should be.

If you examine it honestly, you will see that your argument boils down to, "though I'm not rich, and certainly cannot afford private university, I do have some money and that should give me an advantage over applicants who are better qualified, but poorer."

By the way, even if tuition is free (and even if supplies like books are), there is really no such thing as absolutely free. You have to live somewhere, clothe yourself and eat. There will still be those who don't have time to go to school because they have to struggle to eke out a living.

Free universities are still difficult for the poor because to make the cut, you have to work hard and that requires support. In the world, having more money than someone else will almost always given you an advantage in one way or another.

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