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Chile is introducing free higher education

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Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#21

Post by detaro »

goodells wrote: post #10
random_coder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Could you explain more?

The German school system divides students into three distinct groups starting in the fourth grade, meaning the decision is made in the third [1]. The three divisions are 1. Hauptschule (central, lower-level school) 2. Realschule (technical school) and 3. Gymnasium (uni-prep school). Once placed into one of these three tracks, it's very difficult to switch between them - more so in the later years, since they each hav…

Starting with 5th grade, primary school has 4 years (or 6 in 2 states, and possibly different numbers in experimental cases).

And while switching between the tracks indeed is difficult, it is possible to either gain the Abitur after going to one of the "lower" levels by taking additional years of schooling, or start at uni (especially universities of applied science) without it all. The article you linked gives the (to me surprising, I wouldn't have expected the numbers to be that high) statistic of

> The most traditional route has always been graduation from a Gymnasium with the Abitur; however this has become less common over time. As of 2008, less than half of university freshmen in some German states had graduated from a Gymnasium. Even in Bavaria (a state with a policy of strengthening the Gymnasium) only 56 percent of freshmen had graduated from a Gymnasium.

That said, this early split certainly is a heavily debated topic and in many cases likely is not optimal.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#22

Post by bdcravens »

jkot wrote: post #18

There is other side of this. State will only pay for education it finds useful. So there will be lot of engineers and doctors. But some narrow fields might might accept only 0.01% of applicants. Not saying it is good or bad. Humanities are mostly affected, I guess we only need 3 sociologist per 1 million people. But also entire Germany in 2006 had only 20 graduates who knew howto control atomic reactors.

There is the joke that those with psychology degrees learn to ask the important questions, like "Do you want fries with that?"

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#23

Post by Test-Grave »

goodells wrote: post #10
random_coder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Could you explain more?

The German school system divides students into three distinct groups starting in the fourth grade, meaning the decision is made in the third [1]. The three divisions are 1. Hauptschule (central, lower-level school) 2. Realschule (technical school) and 3. Gymnasium (uni-prep school). Once placed into one of these three tracks, it's very difficult to switch between them - more so in the later years, since they each hav…

Although this is true, it is only half the story and school system.

You leave out the Fachoberschule, Berufsoberschule (name and curriculum depends on the state) and Berufsschule/Apprenticeship system. While the biggest factor in if someone will go on to study later in life will be if a student attended the Gymnasium from 5th grade on, every single person in Germany has many options to get to a university or university of applied sciences. As for the the schools I mentioned before:

Students from the Hauptschule (until 9th grade) and Realschule (until 10th grade) can attend the Fachoberschule, depending on a certain core GPA and extra coursework for Hauptschul students. Which is leading towards the 12th or 13th grade, depending on if the student wants to attend a university of applied science or a university.

Furthermore, students who do an apprenticeship after the 9th or 10th grade can enter a Berufsoberschule with successful completion of their apprenticeship. These students are often allowed to skip the 11th grade (same curriculum as the Fachoberschule).

Whereas, I have to fully agree that it is hard to switch from Hauptschule or Realschule to a Gymnasium, but it is not impossible and I know multiple people who studied at universities, while starting out at the Hauptschule.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#25

Post by jkot »

derefr wrote: post #16
jkot wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Czech have similar system. It is easy to get into technical university if you know some math. Real hard are humanities, some art schools take perhaps 0.5% of applicants.

Wow, 0.5%! What does the market for Czech art-school graduates look like? Is there more demand than supply?

Not sure about market. Most musicians and painters I know are self educated and have daily job.

University does not have monopoly, one can always pay for private university (which is not that expensive). But state university is highly selective and most prestigious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Performing_Arts_in_...

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#26

Post by DieBuche »

derefr wrote: post #16
jkot wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Czech have similar system. It is easy to get into technical university if you know some math. Real hard are humanities, some art schools take perhaps 0.5% of applicants.

Wow, 0.5%! What does the market for Czech art-school graduates look like? Is there more demand than supply?

acceptance rates of around 1% are common for german art schools as well

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#27

Post by rhino369 »

philippnagel wrote: post #17
nazgul wrote: post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

Well, it is not that selective. According to the "Bildungsbericht 2014" 50% of all persons eligible to enter tertiary education do so [0]. In 2013 51.7% of people in the relevant age groups (18 - 21) were eligible for enrollment in a tertiary education program [1]. These are just some quickly researched numbers. Feel free to criticize! On a personal note: I am a german student and trust me, even at institutions regar…

25% going to college seems low. In America 63% of people have done some college, higher among those who are younger.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#28

Post by crimsonalucard »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #8

I don't think free college works without some sort of strings attached work. It exists in Austria and the quality of students and colleges is terrible. Everybody and their dog go to colleges now dropping the quality to abysmal levels. There is no proper selection happening.

>There is no proper selection.

Unless you're trying to filter out poor people, removing tuition makes selection MORE fair. Intelligence and capability should be the only criteria for selection, not money.

Free higher education is not some imaginary ideal that doesn't exist yet. Take a look at universities in Sweden. If you're a citizen can attend great universities for free, No Strings Attached.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#29

Post by masklinn »

raverbashing wrote: post #9
random_coder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Could you explain more?

Not sure about the details of the German system In France tuition in Public universities is free Of course it depends on your scores on the Bac and on the Prep school that follows it (to get ready for the exams) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaur%C3%A9at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_pr%C3%A9paratoire_aux_gr...

Prep schools are not for university, they're for "great schools" which is a separate system and pretty much unique to the country. Neither prep schools nor the bac are relevant to universities (outside of having the bac), universities are free-ish and anyone can attend (at least the first year, there's no entrance test)
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