Chile is introducing free higher education • Hacker News Board

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#11

Post by legulere » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

nazgul wrote: post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

It's just a few programmes like med where people get selected strongly. Even there you can get in if you're okay with waiting for a few years. Usually you just register at the university and begin studying there.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#12

Post by msvalkon » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:48 PM UTC

nazgul wrote: post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

This is a very generalizing argument. Universities are free (paid by taxes obviously) in Finland, but there is no such thing like what you describe. In here the only prerequisite is that you have finished high school, then you can take the entry exams.. It's also not uncommon for someone to go into a university later in their life. My cs courses had a good bunch of people in their fifties re-educating themselves.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#13

Post by jkot » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:49 PM UTC

goodells wrote: post #10

random_coder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Could you explain more?

The German school system divides students into three distinct groups starting in the fourth grade, meaning the decision is made in the third [1]. The three divisions are 1. Hauptschule (central, lower-level school) 2. Realschule (technical school) and 3. Gymnasium (uni-prep school). Once placed into one of these three tracks, it's very difficult to switch between them - more so in the later years, since they each hav…

Czech have similar system. It is easy to get into technical university if you know some math. Real hard are humanities, some art schools take perhaps 0.5% of applicants.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#14

Post by digikata » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:49 PM UTC

cjensen wrote: post #3

hackuser wrote: post #2

If many in the U.S. continue to obstruct education (by defunding or by arguing against the value of college) and other countries continue to increase college education, it's not hard to see which countries will have the most educated populations with all the benefits that entails, including attracting and creating the highest skilled jobs.

This has the same problem as most seemingly-good ideas: unintended consequences. If you give every US citizen who attends a US college $20K/year, think about what happens to popular universities with fixed numbers of slots like Stanford or UC Berkeley. They have every incentive to raise their fees by $20K/year. It would still improve the financial situation of students: the universities would probably use some of the…

Part of 'funding' college for everybody isn't just giving them the money to go to college, it's making sure public institutions have enough capacity to handle those students.

Instead of increasing grants, I think directly lowering tuition cost for public universities would force private universities to become more efficient and lower their tuition costs too... non-zero tuition makes for an interesting tension where public and private can compete in different ways (possibly making the system as a whole better than one with only, or mostly, free public colleges)

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#15

Post by pkaye » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #2

If many in the U.S. continue to obstruct education (by defunding or by arguing against the value of college) and other countries continue to increase college education, it's not hard to see which countries will have the most educated populations with all the benefits that entails, including attracting and creating the highest skilled jobs.

There is the community college followed by state university combo. This can be quite affordable and help students adjust up to the university system if they were ill prepared in high school.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#16

Post by derefr » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

jkot wrote: post #13

goodells wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German school system divides students into three distinct groups starting in the fourth grade, meaning the decision is made in the third [1]. The three divisions are 1. Hauptschule (central, lower-level school) 2. Realschule (technical school) and 3. Gymnasium (uni-prep school). Once placed into one of these three tracks, it's very difficult to switch between them - more so in the later years, since they each hav…

Czech have similar system. It is easy to get into technical university if you know some math. Real hard are humanities, some art schools take perhaps 0.5% of applicants.

Wow, 0.5%! What does the market for Czech art-school graduates look like? Is there more demand than supply?

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#17

Post by philippnagel » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

nazgul wrote: post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

Well, it is not that selective.

According to the "Bildungsbericht 2014" 50% of all persons eligible to enter tertiary education do so [0]. In 2013 51.7% of people in the relevant age groups (18 - 21) were eligible for enrollment in a tertiary education program [1].

These are just some quickly researched numbers. Feel free to criticize!

On a personal note: I am a german student and trust me, even at institutions regarded to be high-tier (e.g. LMU Munich), you will find lots of people that should have rather entered an apprenticeship for example.

[0]: http://www.bildungsbericht.de/daten2014/wichtige_ergebnisse_... (in german)

[1]: http://www.datenportal.bmbf.de/portal/de/Tabelle-2.5.85.html

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#18

Post by jkot » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:55 PM UTC

There is other side of this.

State will only pay for education it finds useful. So there will be lot of engineers and doctors. But some narrow fields might might accept only 0.01% of applicants.

Not saying it is good or bad. Humanities are mostly affected, I guess we only need 3 sociologist per 1 million people. But also entire Germany in 2006 had only 20 graduates who knew howto control atomic reactors.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#19

Post by hk__2 » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:56 PM UTC

msvalkon wrote: post #12

nazgul wrote: post #5

People don't get that when you make college free, you also take away a lot of the choice that goes into college. German colleges are free but the kids who are chosen to go to them are often selected by the third grade. Lowering the cost of public universities while increasing the quality will pressure private universities to do the same, and thus make college more affordable and accessible for everyone -- it's a much…

This is a very generalizing argument. Universities are free (paid by taxes obviously) in Finland, but there is no such thing like what you describe. In here the only prerequisite is that you have finished high school, then you can take the entry exams.. It's also not uncommon for someone to go into a university later in their life. My cs courses had a good bunch of people in their fifties re-educating themselves.

In France you don’t even have any entry exams for universities.

Re: Chile is introducing free higher education

#20

Post by hippich » Fri, May 08, 2015, 10:56 PM UTC

i had idea, which lines up with basic income ideas, of treating college attendance just like any other 8-5 job. I.e. tough interview, raises based on performance, annual performance evaluations, firing for not performing well. And "salary" paid by taxes.

I get that this is highly unlikely today, but may be when basic income ideas will be more acceptable, something like this could be proposed too.