Previous discussion about their move to Holacracy [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9431090
[1] http://holacracy.org/how-it-works
Has anybody operated under Holacracy and speak to it?
210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
41–50 of 327 posts
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#42Thought experiment: ignore the holacracy angle and offer everyone in any company 3-months severance if they quit by a certain date. What percentage would quit? I wouldn't be surprised if the average was 10-20% and a vast majority of these people are taking advantage of what they see as a good deal irregardless of their feelings on holacracy as a management style.
What percentage would quit? The ones that could land another job by the quit date. They would essentially get a 3-month "bonus" for doing nothing. I would say this is only possible if the these people were looking to jump ship anyway.
What percentage of any competent IT team can't have a competitive offer in writing by the end of the day?
Even if your anticipated time between jobs is 1-2 months, you can still confidently quit by the deadline and end up with six weeks paid vacation and a six weeks bonus.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#43Thought experiment: ignore the holacracy angle and offer everyone in any company 3-months severance if they quit by a certain date. What percentage would quit? I wouldn't be surprised if the average was 10-20% and a vast majority of these people are taking advantage of what they see as a good deal irregardless of their feelings on holacracy as a management style.
Actually, that aspect of Zappos's strategy isn't new at all. Here's an article from 2008. tl;dr is "If you quit today, we will pay you for the amount of time you’ve worked, plus we will offer you a $1,000 bonus." https://hbr.org/2008/05/why-zappos-pays-new-employees/
True, though 3 months pay for seasoned employees is signifanctly different in timing and scale
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
What percentage would quit? The ones that could land another job by the quit date. They would essentially get a 3-month "bonus" for doing nothing. I would say this is only possible if the these people were looking to jump ship anyway.
What percentage of any competent IT team can't have a competitive offer in writing by the end of the day? Even if your anticipated time between jobs is 1-2 months, you can still confidently quit by the deadline and end up with six weeks paid vacation and a six weeks bonus.
In the US I would guess around 95%.
Extend things to 1-2 months and that probably drops to 20% or so which is very good odds.
However, the difference between a 'competitive' offer and a 'good' one at a company you want to work for is huge. If your spending between 1/3 and 2/3 of your waking hours at work you need to make them count.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, I wish my company would do something like this - middle management is clearly slowing us down and adding very little value right now. I can't wait to read that book.
You're making a flawed assumption many people make: because many managers are poor managers, management is bad. Be careful what you wish for. A company without management is like a boat without a captain. You might appear to be fine for some time, but eventually you'll be hopelessly adrift at sea.
In my experience, a bad manager can be far worse than having no managers. A management-less company may end up being adrift at sea, but that's a far better alternative than running into an iceberg or sailing into pirate-infested waters.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#46I work at a company that was in bad shape during the financial crisis. A temporary CEO was put in charge. Ultimately, a number of companies were merged to create one company that could survive. In the end, one of the CEO's of the merged companies became the CEO of the final company. His first act as CEO was to offer everyone in the company a tenure-based package to leave the company. I don't know the full numbers, bu…
> It was unclear what his intentions were. To determine loyalty to the company, possibly.
Corporate loyalty has been dead for many, many years.
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#47>John Bunch, technical adviser at Zappos and leader of the Holacracy transition ...right
A.K.A. "Designated fall guy when the whole thing goes kablooey and the CEO needs someone to pin the blame on."
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, I wish my company would do something like this - middle management is clearly slowing us down and adding very little value right now. I can't wait to read that book.
You're making a flawed assumption many people make: because many managers are poor managers, management is bad. Be careful what you wish for. A company without management is like a boat without a captain. You might appear to be fine for some time, but eventually you'll be hopelessly adrift at sea.
The Costa Concordia had a captain....
A company without management may drift around aimlessly in Brownian motion, but at least it does not order "ahead flank" onto the rocks.
There once was a manager,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
And when she was good,
She was very, very good,
But when she was bad, there were layoffs.Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#49Strange it isn't former CEO as you wouldn't have a CEO in a flat company. Seems hypocritical to me, but maybe it isn't and I don't get the distinction.
Just because you don't need management doesn't mean you don't need leadership.
Right, "nobody's job is essential...well except mine, of course."
Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum
#50Offering money for employees to leave is an interesting strategy. I worry about unintended consequences, though. One consequence is that the very best people (who have easy times finding jobs or striking out on their own) will be much more likely to leave than less competent people who may feel they would have a harder time on the open job market.
This sentiment is echoed a lot in relation to Zappos' policies, and I think it holds water. But it crossed my mind that the existence Dunning-Kruger effect might actually result in the inverse.