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The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

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Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#81

Post by voteforchange »

tptacek wrote: post #77
tzs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was happening at MIT was hardly equivalent to someone leaving their Facebook page open at the library. They had some unknown person massively exceeding the limits of what they intended to offer to the public. When they used blocking methods that would stop most people, he evaded them. When they continued trying to stop him, he continued evading. Then he entered an equipment room off limits to the public, wired e…

The Secret Service is routinely called in for complicated computer crime cases; they are historically the federal government's computer crimes expertise center. The fact that the case was prosecuted federally is notable, but the USSS's involvement isn't.

What's the alternative?

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#82

Post by [deleted] »

Zigurd wrote: post #73
tzs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was happening at MIT was hardly equivalent to someone leaving their Facebook page open at the library. They had some unknown person massively exceeding the limits of what they intended to offer to the public. When they used blocking methods that would stop most people, he evaded them. When they continued trying to stop him, he continued evading. Then he entered an equipment room off limits to the public, wired e…

The supposed victim, JSTOR, dropped their civil case. If it had affected them materially, they would have been wrong to do so.

[deleted]

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#83

Post by tptacek »

Zigurd wrote: post #80
tptacek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're accusing Hal Abelson of deliberately deceiving the public? Or is there a better way to interpret what you wrote?

If you look at my response below, the report does not have to be an outright lie to be a whitewash. It can deceive by omission, for example. The headline of CNN's coverage of the report was "We did not target Aaron." That's true-ish. There's a lot of room between there and the truth, which is more like "We failed to stand up to stop a bad investigation and prosecution, and now we're dodging responsibility." Would you…

That's why I used the word "deceive", as you did right here as well, and so I guess my response is to repeat the question I asked above.

Do you really believe Hal Abelson was deliberately or negligently --- ie, culpably --- deceptive?

later: added clarifying word "really"

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#84

Post by voteforchange »

Zigurd wrote: post #73
tzs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was happening at MIT was hardly equivalent to someone leaving their Facebook page open at the library. They had some unknown person massively exceeding the limits of what they intended to offer to the public. When they used blocking methods that would stop most people, he evaded them. When they continued trying to stop him, he continued evading. Then he entered an equipment room off limits to the public, wired e…

The supposed victim, JSTOR, dropped their civil case. If it had affected them materially, they would have been wrong to do so.

Well FUCK jstor. I want a payday.

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#85

Post by tedunangst »

voteforchange wrote: post #71
tedunangst wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its very hard to even tell when and if a crime has been committed. So what's your suggestion? Ignore the intrusion until it goes away?

If I had the ear of middle management in America's security service I'd suggest a different approach to evangelizing at a grassroots level. Let's stop pretending startups can ignore the law and make knowledge of the law a distinguishing mark in the pedigree of a startup hacker.

Are you a Markov bot?

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#86

Post by Zigurd »

tptacek wrote: post #83
Zigurd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at my response below, the report does not have to be an outright lie to be a whitewash. It can deceive by omission, for example. The headline of CNN's coverage of the report was "We did not target Aaron." That's true-ish. There's a lot of room between there and the truth, which is more like "We failed to stand up to stop a bad investigation and prosecution, and now we're dodging responsibility." Would you…

That's why I used the word "deceive", as you did right here as well, and so I guess my response is to repeat the question I asked above. Do you really believe Hal Abelson was deliberately or negligently --- ie, culpably --- deceptive? later: added clarifying word "really"

"Deceptive" is your word. I said "whitewash."

A whitewash is dissembling and deflecting and, ultimately, deceptive. Abelson, and the other authors of the report should have refused to write it.

But Reif is mostly to blame. He asked for the report, and used it to deflect blame.

Now here is where YOU are being deceptive. You are digging for "Hal Abelson is culpably deceptive." You would even prefer something stronger. That's a weak rhetorical ploy. Write it yourself if you want to read it.

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#87

Post by tptacek »

Zigurd wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I used the word "deceive", as you did right here as well, and so I guess my response is to repeat the question I asked above. Do you really believe Hal Abelson was deliberately or negligently --- ie, culpably --- deceptive? later: added clarifying word "really"

"Deceptive" is your word. I said "whitewash." A whitewash is dissembling and deflecting and, ultimately, deceptive. Abelson, and the other authors of the report should have refused to write it. But Reif is mostly to blame. He asked for the report, and used it to deflect blame. Now here is where YOU are being deceptive. You are digging for "Hal Abelson is culpably deceptive." You would even prefer something stronger.…

"Deceptive is your word. I said 'whitewash'. A whitewash is [...] ultimately deceptive."

I don't feel like I'm so much trying to use debate tactics against you as to observe how uncomfortable even you seem to be with the idea that Hal Abelson was deliberately deceptive.

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#88

Post by masterminding »

nness wrote: post #14
masterminding wrote: post #12

People should really be upset at the first girlfriend who tipped the Feds about the manifesto for immunity. You really have to keep most people on a need-to-know basis.

I think the movie conveys pretty clearly that she shows a lot of remorse and anger about how she was treated and the information she gave up under duress.

It doesn't matter. Her cooperating for immunity led to a ripple effect of him committing suicide.

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#89

Post by nthcolumn »

s_dev wrote: post #16

"But also, I must admit that I am a little disappointed in Aaron. I understand that depression is a serious disease that can fell any person, however strong. But he chose the path of the activist long ago. And the path of the activist is to fight, for as long and as hard as it takes, to effect change. Aaron had powerful friends, a powerful support network, and a keen sense of moral cause that put him in the right. Th…

The internet's own boy? Where was the internet when he needed them? "He's rich - he made reddit". He never said he was strong. He was an american who naively still believed in its ideals. Fk him right? I wonder how long you guys would last without your internet connection? "He was brilliant and weird, oh it was depression, he made a terrible mistake". Nothing to do with the overbearing jackbooted hypocrites intent on payback charging him with illegal wiretapping whilst all the while doing exactly that to him and other activists! It takes some cynicism to square that. Almost as cynical as that shill Atwood.

Downvote me to Hell you bastards.

Re: The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video]

#90

Post by Zigurd »

tptacek wrote: post #87
Zigurd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Deceptive" is your word. I said "whitewash." A whitewash is dissembling and deflecting and, ultimately, deceptive. Abelson, and the other authors of the report should have refused to write it. But Reif is mostly to blame. He asked for the report, and used it to deflect blame. Now here is where YOU are being deceptive. You are digging for "Hal Abelson is culpably deceptive." You would even prefer something stronger.…

"Deceptive is your word. I said 'whitewash'. A whitewash is [...] ultimately deceptive." I don't feel like I'm so much trying to use debate tactics against you as to observe how uncomfortable even you seem to be with the idea that Hal Abelson was deliberately deceptive.

So you are completely comfortable defending the Abelson report, and find it completely honest. That's dandy.

Are you still comfortable with your comments here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

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