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25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

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Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#121

Post by ksab »

sp332 wrote: post #7
paulshapiro wrote: post #4

What does "badly tuned" mean? I feel like there is a need for a lot more clarity. Anyone have the source study (or know what it is). I'd like to know more.

A summary of the three papers is here: http://media.utoronto.ca/media-releases/traffic-emissions-ma... They just set up some measurement tools by the side of the road and waited for cars to drive by. They didn't check the "tune" of each car or test whether any kind of tune-up would change anything. Edit: more links! Naomi Zimmerman's webpage: http://naomizimmerman.com/publications/ Abstract of the relevant paper: htt…

Thanks for your interest in our work! (Lead author on the ultrafine particle mapping paper).

The SOCAAR facility has operated at this roadside location since 2006 and is one of the largest air quality research lab in Canada.

Over the years, we have routinely seen peaks in CO2 as vehicles pass our monitoring station. However, when some vehicles pass, we also see NOx, black carbon or ultrafine particle peak(s).

While we have video footage of the road, it can be extremely difficult to link the measurements to a single passing vehicle. Identifying these vehicles and why their emissions are different from the rest of the vehicle fleet is where the research our heading.

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#122

Post by ScottBurson »

peter303 wrote: post #85

I remember a pollution program in CA where they'd buy 20+ year old cars and junk them. Those cars made most of the pollution then. This program was a pollution credit program. A factor met its pollution control program by cutting either its own or someone elses pollution by a statutory amount.

Yep, that's still going on. I've received a couple of letters offering to buy my 1993 Toyota MR2. The letters do say something like "If your vehicle is a classic or is otherwise special to you, ignore this letter." It is a bit of a classic -- in any case, it's worth a lot more than the $500 (or $1000? not sure) they're offering.

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#123

Post by SCAQTony »

vonmoltke wrote: post #36
genericuser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also even their language is phrased such as it says "16 of the world’s largest ships can produce as much lung-clogging sulphur pollution as all the world’s cars" Note the inclusion of the word 'can' before produce. Making this statistic unreliable without further support.

Additionally, it refers specifically to sulfur compounds, not to air pollution in general.

Respectfully sulphur is air pollution and causes significant harm.

From Wikipedia (section of Environmental impact of shipping: Conventional Pollutants)

"...Of total global air emissions, shipping accounts for 18 to 30 percent of the nitrogen oxide and 9 percent of the sulphur oxides.[15] [16] Sulfur in the air creates acid rain which damages crops and buildings. When inhaled the sulfur is known to cause respiratory problems and even increases the risk of a heart attack.[17] According to Irene Blooming, a spokeswoman for the European environmental coalition Seas at Risk, the fuel used in oil tankers and container ships is high in sulfur and cheaper to buy compared to the fuel used for domestic land use. "A ship lets out around 50 times more sulfur than a lorry per metric tonne of cargo carried."[17] Cities in the U.S. like Long Beach, Los Angeles, Houston, Galveston, and Pittsburgh see some of the heaviest shipping traffic in the nation and have left local officials desperately trying to clean up the air.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_shippin...

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#124

Post by madaxe_again »

smeyer wrote: post #64
kaeluka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took measurements in Toronto

The specific quote if madaxe_again missed it: >Researchers at the University of Toronto looked at 100,000 cars as they drove past air sampling probes on one of Toronto’s major roads.

No, fully aware that this study was in Toronto, but if it's remotely indicative of the variation of the environmental damage car emissions cause, then the problem is vastly exacerbated by old and poorly maintained vehicles driven in less wealthy and/or impoverished parts of the world.

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#125

Post by madaxe_again »

ac29 wrote: post #67
madaxe_again wrote: post #51

And 99% of those 25% are probably in the developing world, and the ex-USSR. I've been all over the planet, and I have yet to see trucks which emit thick black smoke straight from the engine (no exhaust system) like the ones Russia and other ex soviet states are absolutely chock full of. Edit: Also, only place on earth I've ever seen a petrol pump with the choices of 60, 80, or 85 octane fuel. Pinkpinkpinkpinkpink.

>Also, only place on earth I've ever seen a petrol pump with the choices of 60, 80, or 85 octane fuel. If youv'e ever seen a pump with diesel, you've seen a pump with 15-25 octane [1]. Also, I wouldnt confuse octane with energy content -- pure ethanol has an octane rating of 100+, despite having lower energy density than pure gasoline [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

I'm fully aware that octane isn't energy density - octane is a long chain which prevents pre-ignition - hence pinkpinkpink - pre-ignition - pinking. I had to fill up a mercedes 190E 2.6 on 60 on one occasion, and fuck did it hate it - particularly as I'd lost my exhaust somewhere in the desert. Set off car alarms when I got into town, just by driving by.

My point was rather that they require fuels with such incredibly low octane ratings due to the astonishingly crap compression ratios on ladas, volgas, and yaz trucks, and most soviet technology. The point was that they could run on near-as-damnit bunker oil, watered down with expensive petrol.

Because these vehicles are still in use, they produce an extraordinary amount of pollution, as the low temperature burning that occurs in them results in a crap-tonne of soot.

Same kinda deal with diesels, but again, their diesels will literally run on bunker oil, and you wouldn't believe the incredible clouds of crap that spew forth from them - particularly when they have no exhaust system.

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#126

Post by exabrial »

Duh.

Spend 5 mins on the road in Missouri and you'll see 100 new cars go by with a scant trace of engine noise, and 1 1994 geo metro missing an exhaust, plastic wrap over one window, two doors of different colors, with the driver on a cell phone smoking a pack of Pall Malls, riding on 3 bald tires and a spare, with the rusted tail pipe spewing white smoke. They pull into quick trip and run inside for a bottle of oil so they can fill up the engine before they pump their gas.

Once again, liberal regulations new cars hardly solves any problems, but looks great for pleasing the voters of "blue states." ...sort of like providing tax credits for new home owners for energy efficient homes... Where apartment complexes have air conditioners from 1970 and the tenants pay the electric bills. All these regulations just add cost to doing business without providing any real benefit to the environment. But the regulations buy votes, so why not?

If we want this changed, we really have to start voting for science, which currently, neither party can associate with. Stupid stupid stupid.

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#127

Post by [deleted] »

collyw wrote: post #19

Here in Europe (well UK and Spain whee I have lived and owned a car) you need to get a check every year for older cars, and that includes an emissions test. Don't you get that in the States / Canada? (It would appear that the study was done in Canada). Saying that, go to many less developed country and the cars are far worse condition. My friend always used to claim that the environmental cost of producing a new car…

[deleted]

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#128

Post by lloeki »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #102
SCAQTony wrote: post #15

And 16-container ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world. Perhaps these ships are softer targets to correct than tens of millions of cars? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-1...

They produce as much sulfur as all the cars in the world (because cars don't produce very much sulfur). For other types of pollution, cars produce much more.

As far as whacky comparisons go, I'd always wanted to do some back of the envelope calculation comparing smokers' CO2 output to cars'. Also, always wonder how much cigarette filters (that are supposed to capture various chemicals) that get thrown on the floor could contribute to (e.g.) water pollution, if at all.

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#129

Post by arcseco »

SCAQTony wrote: post #15

And 16-container ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world. Perhaps these ships are softer targets to correct than tens of millions of cars? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-1...

The problem is the proximity of humans to cars. The results are form a study done at UofT Eng Dept. The crux of their findings were that it takes much longer than anticipated for the levels of 'pollution', in various form, to drop in concentration with distance from the source. I think the following excerpt from the UofT press release is the most intriguing[1];

“The ultrafine particles are particularly troubling,” says Evans. “Because they are over 1000 times smaller than the width of a human hair, they have a greater ability to penetrate deeper within the lung and travel in the body.”

On a typical summer day in Toronto, Evans’ instruments measure approximately 20,000 ultrafine particles in each cubic centimetre of air. This means that for every average breath, Torontonians are inhaling 10 million of these nano-sized particles. These numbers increases to 30,000 and 15 million in the winter, when there is more stagnant air and less evaporation of the compounds."

[1]http://news.engineering.utoronto.ca/traffic-emissions-may-po...

Re: 25% of Cars Cause 90% of Automobile Air Pollution

#130

Post by malyk »

ScottBurson wrote: post #122
peter303 wrote: post #85

I remember a pollution program in CA where they'd buy 20+ year old cars and junk them. Those cars made most of the pollution then. This program was a pollution credit program. A factor met its pollution control program by cutting either its own or someone elses pollution by a statutory amount.

Yep, that's still going on. I've received a couple of letters offering to buy my 1993 Toyota MR2. The letters do say something like "If your vehicle is a classic or is otherwise special to you, ignore this letter." It is a bit of a classic -- in any case, it's worth a lot more than the $500 (or $1000? not sure) they're offering.

I believe california will buy cars that can't pass the smog check for $1500 for low income earners and $1000 to others.

http://www.smogtips.com/vehicle_buy_back.cfm

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