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Weave is kinda slow

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101–110 of 164 posts

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it represents a loose consensus mechanism, as I explained. That's fine for marketing, but not technical rebuttal to a claim.

Using an account that I share with other people in the same team is not the same as 'marketing'. I am sorry if this somehow offends, but think of the handle as just one poster.

group/novelty/non-personal accounts are frowned upon around here.

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, they are all discussed in the linked article.

I read the article: if they are, that is quite unclear to me. Possible answers that are discussed are only 'some sort of IP encapsulation', which is vague and GRE, which is just a single solution. He doesn't seem to disapprove of VXlan, so probably something was missing in 'IP encapsulation and GRE'. Was 'all problems solved decades ago' merely hyperbole or is there actually something to it?

Is GRE inadequate? A single solution that solves most cases, is codified in an RFC, and has mature, reliable, performant implementations sounds like a winner to me.

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#103
post #83

I'm not sure I even understand the problem that weave and Docker bridging/NAT solves for real world cases. IP allocation for containers isn't a problem for most networks, is it? Certainly AWS can give you up to 8 IPs per instance, and every datacenter I've ever worked in can give you even more, if you ask. All you have to do is spin up additional virtual NICs with virtual MACs and use DHCP to assign IP addresses to t…

Docker was designed to be very easy to get started on your laptop with one IP address and it looks like some people are getting stuck in that model. I agree that if you are running on AWS VPC or some other overlay you should just use VPC for container networking. You shouldn't overlay your overlay. But there isn't any tooling that I know of to do that.

Everyone I know who runs Docker runs it in a virtual machine manager that has a built-in DHCP server and provide multiple virtual interfaces to the virtual machine. Certainly both VirtualBox and VMWare do.

Even if one runs a Docker bridge in his development VM, that doesn't one must do so in production as well.

Are we in this mess because production engineers don't understand networking?

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#104
post #86
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'good enough' attitude does not lead to quality in the long run. It drags the entire system down. (C, PHP, Windows, etc).

Except that people who can recognize when something is indeed "good enough" and then move on to the next most important thing are ultimately the only people who get things done and accomplish goals.

That's a false dichotomy: the difference between good work and shoddy work is much different than the difference between perfect work and shoddy work.

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it simply, if @monadic were receptive to @lclarkmichalek's ideas, why did he end the conversation? But let's look at the Tweet in question: "@lclarkmichalek @weavenetwork please, if it is so simple and robust you are very welcome to contribute a patch." 1. He says "please", which in this case is sarcastic. 2. Then he says "if it is so simple," which is a dismissive way of saying "you think that it's simple, bu…

> To put it simply, if @monadic were receptive to @lclarkmichalek's ideas, why did he end the conversation? It was actually @lclarkmichalek who ended the conversation.

That does not appear to be the case to me :/

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "our project is open source, feel free to submit a patch" dismissal is so passive aggressive. If you mean "fuck you," then just say "fuck you." That said, you shouldn't be saying "fuck you" in the first place: it's rude, it contributes to bad vibes in the OSS community, and it hurts you more than anybody. Try instead something like: "I'm having trouble understanding your argument, do you mind explaining in more…

I find your attitude the ruder. Users of paid products have the right to complain about stuff like that; it's literally what they paid for. Users of open source projects have no such right: if you know what to do, why not make yourself useful instead of bitching out someone who's volunteered their free time to make your life easier? I have very little patience with armchair pundits myself, if you submit a pull reques…

Nonsense. Users of free and open source software have every right to point out flaws in the design and implementation of that software. And this is an invaluable service to the authors and community. While finding and fixing an issue is nice, it's certainly not required, and not everyone capable of identifying issues has the time, ability, and inclination to fix those issues.

Furthermore, the conversation at issue was initiated by a community member asking why Weave's authors chose to implement their own security mechanism. The point of this kind of question is to assess whether the authors had good reasons, bad reasons, or no reason at all behind a questionable decision. This helps determine whether the effort to resolve the issue would be well-spent. If the authors aren't convinced that other solutions would be superior, they may be unwilling to accept a contribution, and you are potentially wasting your time producing a patch.

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, they are all discussed in the linked article.

I read the article: if they are, that is quite unclear to me. Possible answers that are discussed are only 'some sort of IP encapsulation', which is vague and GRE, which is just a single solution. He doesn't seem to disapprove of VXlan, so probably something was missing in 'IP encapsulation and GRE'. Was 'all problems solved decades ago' merely hyperbole or is there actually something to it?

I read the article, and I don't understand why we're trying to solve the problem of "telling each ContainerOS to listen/respond to an additional IP address, and route it to the correct Container" by "creating another network layer and accompanying additional complexity".

In IIS this is done with Bindings.

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I feel a little guilty after writing this article, as the speed of the implementation is simply a detail. However, I feel no such guilt in condemning Weave's security. This is a conversation I had with @weave a while ago about their encryption https://twitter.com/lclarkmichalek/status/544882194456776705

This "our project is open source, feel free to submit a patch" dismissal is so passive aggressive. If you mean "fuck you," then just say "fuck you." That said, you shouldn't be saying "fuck you" in the first place: it's rude, it contributes to bad vibes in the OSS community, and it hurts you more than anybody. Try instead something like: "I'm having trouble understanding your argument, do you mind explaining in more…

"Submit a patch" may be "fuck you" but that's not what he said, it was more like: "It's not as easy as you think. You can prove me wrong by submitting a patch.". This second is not reasonably interpreted as "fuck you".

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it simply, if @monadic were receptive to @lclarkmichalek's ideas, why did he end the conversation? But let's look at the Tweet in question: "@lclarkmichalek @weavenetwork please, if it is so simple and robust you are very welcome to contribute a patch." 1. He says "please", which in this case is sarcastic. 2. Then he says "if it is so simple," which is a dismissive way of saying "you think that it's simple, bu…

I'm sorry but I find your interpretations of 1-4 completely uncharitable and unreasonable.

I don't; if anything, I personally find them too charitable and reasonable.

Just admit that you (if you're the one who wrote that response; it's not exactly clear who's who in this discussion...) were being a bit of a twit and move on. We all do it; I do it, the girl next door does it, my grandma even does it and she's the nicest person I know. There's no shame in being honest about it.

Re: Weave is kinda slow

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "our project is open source, feel free to submit a patch" dismissal is so passive aggressive. If you mean "fuck you," then just say "fuck you." That said, you shouldn't be saying "fuck you" in the first place: it's rude, it contributes to bad vibes in the OSS community, and it hurts you more than anybody. Try instead something like: "I'm having trouble understanding your argument, do you mind explaining in more…

I find your attitude the ruder. Users of paid products have the right to complain about stuff like that; it's literally what they paid for. Users of open source projects have no such right: if you know what to do, why not make yourself useful instead of bitching out someone who's volunteered their free time to make your life easier? I have very little patience with armchair pundits myself, if you submit a pull reques…

I'm pretty sure the point is more that - had Weave used a standard and already-vetted encryption method instead of rolling their own crypto - they could have put that free time into more useful things instead of now having to maintain yet another crypto implementation on top of their main project.

This isn't to say that there's never room for improvement in the crypto space - I personally disagree with the assertion that rolling one's own crypto is inherently bad in all cases, and instead believe that we need a maximum of innovation attempts now so that they can be evaluated and audited and identified as useful - but unless you're actually fixing a problem, Not-Invented-Here syndrome is dangerous and a waste of time better spent elsewhere.

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