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Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

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Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#111
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make some great points, however I question how big the Kansas market really is. I'm from a 150,000 person city in the Midwest, and there might be 5 taxis operating in town. Kansas has a few bigger cities, but the demand for personal drivers in the Midwest isn't like it is on the coasts.

Isn't this about scale? Sure, the market isn't all that large, but the means, methods, process required to serve it are the same ones that will absolutely be needed to cope with all the different markets, rules, and authorities out there. A billion dollar level company can and should be doing this.

As someone that's from Wichita, I can say that the market is very small in terms of utilization. Most of the people who could afford Uber either own a car or have sufficient access to public transit to their satisfaction. The rest of us slobs who have to nickle/dime our wages are stuck with less than optimal transportation regardless of Uber's presence in the state or not. Basically, Wichita and other Kansas cities are huge for their population. Wichita along is about 8x7 miles if I remember right. And this excludes suburbs and outlying communities in and out of the county. KCMO is a bit more packed in from what I remember, but not by much. So, for Uber and its drivers to make money they'd need a relatively steady volume of riders to and from places of work and shopping. In Wichita, that's pretty hard to sustain since our employment centers are split up between downtown and East/West Wichita (Cessna, Spirit, Hawker-Beech, and etc). The rest of the employers are along the northside but they're not exactly high wage payers (Does Coleman do any work out there anymore aside from the gas bottling plant?). All in all, Wichita would suck for Uber regulations or no.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right. Well I wish you the best, but be careful. If someone has served their time in prison then that should be the end of the punishment. Common sense restrictions are fine, but they should be eligible for most jobs. It's utterly cruel to pretend someone's punishment is over, then throw them onto the streets with no assistance and near-zero chance of having a life again. By all means keep people locked up if a c…

You're conflating the background check with extra-legal justice. They're not the same. The issue of re-introduction of convicts who have served their sentences is a problem of the State as the State is one who does the punishing.

If you refuse to hire someone based on past crimes, that's extra-legal justice. When it becomes widespread enough, the State has two choices: stop said discrimination, or be complicit in it.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do think they need some regulation, but not with regard to pricing, Would you rather have a service which charges more to (say) black passengers than white? Or which charges more to go to a poorer part of town a rich part? The regulation I'm talking about is not being able to discriminate based on the type of passenger or destination.

That wasn't clear from your original post. You're also being disingenuous in your argument. No, of course I do not support discrimination on the basis of race or economic class. Race is not equivalent to "type of passenger or destination" though. The latter is a much more vague definition. Like it or not, things like distance, roadway accessibility, and desired route impact the cost of a fare, and regulating that awa…

The thing is, there is a huge correlation between race and destination in nearly all major cities. Drivers tend not to want to travel to outer/poorer areas because (1) they are less safe, (2) there are more minorities, (3) they are less likely to be able to pick up a fare for a return trip. So, cabbies used to discriminate based on destination. And, because these destinations correlate with race so well, they'd discriminate based on race as well. So, NYC and other cities have outlawed a taxi driver's ability to discriminate based on destination. Companies like Uber, however, discriminate based on destination and, thus, race.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating the background check with extra-legal justice. They're not the same. The issue of re-introduction of convicts who have served their sentences is a problem of the State as the State is one who does the punishing.

If you refuse to hire someone based on past crimes, that's extra-legal justice. When it becomes widespread enough, the State has two choices: stop said discrimination, or be complicit in it.

So, I should be required to hire someone at a daycare center even if that person was a child molester (unrepentant)? I'm not trying to lure you in the "think of the children" trap, but it's an honest question in light of the potential jobs a person could obtain. If said ex-con child molester was to get a job somewhere else like in meat packing or IT that's different. But if they were to waltz up to a daycare center and apply knowing full well their conviction would show up on the background check, you really think they should get the job?

I'm all ears, but don't expect me to accept your conclusion.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#115
post #55
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been living in NYC for ten years. I use cabs constantly. This has happened to be exactly one time. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think the idea that this is common for NYC cabbies to do is really outdated.

More anecdata: this happens to me continually. I have successfully reported at least half a dozen drivers in as many months for refusing to go to bushwick.

Maybe the "market" is telling you not to live in bushwick ?

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do think they need some regulation, but not with regard to pricing, Would you rather have a service which charges more to (say) black passengers than white? Or which charges more to go to a poorer part of town a rich part? The regulation I'm talking about is not being able to discriminate based on the type of passenger or destination.

That wasn't clear from your original post. You're also being disingenuous in your argument. No, of course I do not support discrimination on the basis of race or economic class. Race is not equivalent to "type of passenger or destination" though. The latter is a much more vague definition. Like it or not, things like distance, roadway accessibility, and desired route impact the cost of a fare, and regulating that awa…

There are fare components for mileage and time, which should deal with distance, roadway accessibility, and desired route. Needing surge pricing to get them to pick someone up in Oakland should not be necessary.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you refuse to hire someone based on past crimes, that's extra-legal justice. When it becomes widespread enough, the State has two choices: stop said discrimination, or be complicit in it.

So, I should be required to hire someone at a daycare center even if that person was a child molester (unrepentant)? I'm not trying to lure you in the "think of the children" trap, but it's an honest question in light of the potential jobs a person could obtain. If said ex-con child molester was to get a job somewhere else like in meat packing or IT that's different. But if they were to waltz up to a daycare center a…

That's a particularly bad example to argue from, since that is clearly not an example of extra-legal punishment, since child molesters are generally legally forbidden from working with children even after any prison terms is complete, and legal daycare centers often have a positive legal obligation to conduct background checks and exclude such offenders.

So, excluding those offenders from isn't extra-legal punishment, its simply legal punishment.

This is, of course, different in critical ways from the general case of excluding convicts from hiring pools.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating the background check with extra-legal justice. They're not the same. The issue of re-introduction of convicts who have served their sentences is a problem of the State as the State is one who does the punishing.

If you refuse to hire someone based on past crimes, that's extra-legal justice. When it becomes widespread enough, the State has two choices: stop said discrimination, or be complicit in it.

So are you saying that I should be required to be friends with rapists?

Because refusing to be friends with a rapist is also "extra-legal justice" according to your logic.

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#119
post #4

Uber has been having similar regulatory fights in Kansas City, which recently passed ordinances that Uber claimed would make it prohibitive to do business there ( http://goo.gl/cXlhzb ). Uber made claims that "thousands of jobs" would be lost in the move, despite the fact that its competitors (Lyft, etc.) would abide by the new rules and continue to operate. It seems a little silly to talk about the jobs of your cont…

Uber made claims that "thousands of jobs" would be lost in the move I've got a lot of reservations about calling Uber/Lyft a "job" in the first place; in fact I have a lot of problems with these "sharing economy" apps-calling them jobs when really you're just subcontracting labor on the cheap while the business side collects massive investments and benefits for the full-time employees. It's like when you drive by a D…

Funny you mention that, given Uber was forced to roll back its claims that you could easily make $90K a year as an Uber driver... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/uber-driver_n_62496... amongst many others).

Re: Uber leaves Kansas after lawmakers demand background checks and more insurance

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you refuse to hire someone based on past crimes, that's extra-legal justice. When it becomes widespread enough, the State has two choices: stop said discrimination, or be complicit in it.

So are you saying that I should be required to be friends with rapists? Because refusing to be friends with a rapist is also "extra-legal justice" according to your logic.

I don't see anyone saying anyone should be required to do anything. I see someone stating that when private discrimination on the basis of status assigned by the State exists and is widespread, the State either actively intervenes to prevent the discrimination or is facilitating the discrimination.
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