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Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

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Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#101

Post by angersock »

sgustard wrote: post #96

I'm 46 and on my 4th founding engineering team. Coding every day, learning new frameworks with each new role. Home for dinner every night with my kids. My coworkers and I are all in the same age range, we've circulated from one startup to the next, some quite lucrative, others flame out, but no one ever questions our abilities. Don't work for the man, especially when the man is just a boy.

Don't work for the man, especially when the man is just a boy.

Hah, I love it.

Then again, working for older people that think they know something just because old is equally tiresome.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#102

Post by Tactic »

frostmatthew wrote: post #8
smt88 wrote: post #4

There tends to be a lot more money in management, consulting, and other areas that don't require daily coding. I've heard many non-technical people say that if you're still coding after ~35, you must be lacking important people skills. I don't agree with that kind of generalization, but it seems to be a common viewpoint. The major problem for older programmers is that people believe that the ability to learn decrease…

> I've heard many non-technical people say that if you're still coding after ~35, you must be lacking important people skills. I don't agree with that kind of generalization, but it seems to be a common viewpoint. I've never understood that viewpoint either - nobody ever says "if you're still a doctor or lawyer after age X you must be lacking Y"

I think your counterpoint of a doctor or lawyer is particularly apt. These are both careers where I tend to look for someone that is older and thus more experienced. Yet both of those fields have a constant influx of new information much like IT.

Perhaps the real issue is that IT is still relatively new and as the industry ages ageism will change.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#103

Post by riffraff »

hnnewguy wrote: post #59
mpdehaan2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: I'm not close to 50 like this topic asks, but I think this perception is a weird one I haven't personally witnessed. I think this stereotype/assumption (east coast, FWIW) - is probably due to the radical uptake on the field. There are a lot of young people, and that's starting to die off a bit more as computers are "a given" and those people themselves get older. Simply put - there will be a LOT of people in th…

> I think this stereotype/assumption (east coast, FWIW) - is probably due to the radical uptake on the field" Hmm, I like this, and I think you may be right. Unless you worked in a pretty scientific field, just 25 years ago "computers" were associated with games, and were something that "kids used". Now they're ubiquitous. And this just happened in a generation or two. Over the next couple of decades, the workforce w…

> 5 years ago "computers" were associated with games, and were something that "kids used".

Are you sure? 25 years ago I was around ten and I knew a ton of people with a NES, but computers were expensive and stuff for Serious People.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#104

Post by delphinius81 »

fecak wrote: post #81
unoti wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ten years in one company is that you're likely to stay in your comfort zone and not learn enough new things. In an industry that reinvents itself every 5-8 years, the comfort zone is very dangerous indeed.

I'd suggest that moving around (internally or changing employers) usually requires someone to learn new things. People with long tenures in a single company can also learn new things, but it may not be a job requirement - they have to learn off the job.

I think there is still an expectation to stay up to date on technology, even if you do have a long tenure at a single place. You will very likely work on multiple projects over a 4 year period, let alone 10 years, and requirements will change from one project to another. Plus, if you don't know about new technology, you will likely spend a lot of time trying to develop something that has already been solved.

Staying up to date (at least aware, if not proficient) should always be a job requirement, whether you are a new grad or industry veteran.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#105

Post by kpgraham »

vosper wrote: post #65
kpgraham wrote: post #63

I am 64. I wrote my first program in 1970 and have worked as a programmer since 1976. Programming was a good career choice. For many years I was a manager and pretty much hated it and returned to programming. I quit my job and went to work at IBM as a software engineer the year I turned 50. I was the oldest person in my department, and was a bit of a father figure to some of the kids there. Otherwise I did not fit in…

Would you tell me a little about your transition to and from management? Did you find it difficult to give up the management role at all, and were there things that you learned from managing that you were able to use when you went back to being a full-time engineer?

In the early 1980s I was hired as the Manager of Micro-Development at Lockheed Martin because I wanted too much money to work as a programmer. In these days the section I was in had no PCs so I brought my old luggable (not really portable) IBM PC/XT from home. I worked as a programmer for the large part and I was happy doing development work with two or three other programmers, but when PCs became ubiquitous I had a whole department and I spent much of time managing personnel issues and not coding. I switched the coding from COBOL to VB4 and Oracle and then Java, and produced hundreds of thousands of lines of code for a Document Management System that I wrote from scratch. At one point, when the Director was promoted to another department and the VP was fired, I was acting VP of the entire development group. Luckily this only lasted a month before they hired a new VP. All of the systems that I wrote (including the original EZPass system for reviewing toll violations) reached maturity and my job was managing small improvements and bug fixes and nothing new or original. It was programming hell. By the time I left, a new department had been formed to set up some the Web apps that would eventually replace the systems that I wrote, but I was left to maintain the old system. Basically I worked myself out of job. I was doing precious little coding managing people that were bored and unhappy. Younger and more ambitious people were getting the next big thing. In 2000-2001 people were hiring anyone that could spell programmer for big bucks. After 10 years I was glad to move to IBM where I hoped I would be appreciated. I have been a programmer acting as a team lead since then, but I never again want to be in the position where people call me in the morning to give me lame excuses as to why they can't come to work that day.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#106

Post by kpgraham »

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #90
kpgraham wrote: post #63

I am 64. I wrote my first program in 1970 and have worked as a programmer since 1976. Programming was a good career choice. For many years I was a manager and pretty much hated it and returned to programming. I quit my job and went to work at IBM as a software engineer the year I turned 50. I was the oldest person in my department, and was a bit of a father figure to some of the kids there. Otherwise I did not fit in…

Thanks for writing, I like this: "Programming is not what I do, but who I am."

I think it is quote from Gibson.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#107

Post by AnimalMuppet »

I'm 53. I still program full time (embedded C++, but I may be moving into Android soon - like, this year). I've spent most of my career in embedded systems, which is kind of a different environment from most of programming.

My last two jobs, I've told them straight up in the interview that my career goal is to never be a manager. Both times I got hired anyway.

On my current job, I had to write the central piece that tied all the other pieces together in six months. There wasn't time for a learning curve. Experience is a big advantage in that kind of situation; I had 24 years, and it helped.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#108

Post by blendo »

I'm 58. I started with Fortran in the 80's, C/C++/Perl/SQL in the 90's, Java/SQL in the 00's, and Python/JavaScript/a bit of Scala/SQL more recently.

I'd credit my interest and persistence, rather than skill, to whatever meager success I've managed to eke out.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#109

Post by fecak »

olau wrote: post #95
fecak wrote: post #16

I'm in my early 40's, but I've recruited software engineers for almost 20 years and I until recently I ran a large Java Users Group over 15 years, which gave me quite a bit of exposure to an older range of engineers. I know many 50+ programmers who are doing quite well (monetarily, respect, responsibility, balance). Some independent consultants, some at startups, some with big firms, etc. A fairly wide variety. Not a…

"I do believe there is often some bias against candidates who had extraordinarily long tenures at one company" I think that's interesting, because I was recently involved in a hiring process where we had the opposite view - long tenure was a hint that if we could provide the right environment, that person was likely to stay with us for many years.

I mentioned in another comment that I had clients years ago with the view you mention. They were primarily older, larger companies. Startups and small shops liked to see movement. Just based on my experience, I'd expect your employer is traditional and established.

Long tenures can indicate loyalty and good performance, but it could also indicate other situations. Perhaps they couldn't get interviews or job offers from other firms. Maybe they got comfortable and found a place that wasn't too challenging. It could show someone that is risk averse (any job change has risk), or who is non-entrepreneurial. People who are overcompensated also tend to stick around.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers Above 50, Is It Possible to Have a Career Past Your 50s?

#110

Post by Sanych-2 »

I'm 52. Program full time. Had to learn new technology about 6 times or more (IBM/360, CPM/MS DOS, Win-Desktop, Win-ClntSrv, Win-3 tier, AS-400), now learning Web and Mobile. I've been a Manager and Developer and all together. Currently I am working in a team where half programmers are about 50. And we doing a popular international product, growing fast.
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