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Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

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Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#91
post #70
post #41

The internet is a perfect surveillance machine. It is irresistible to those in power. I believe it shifts the balance of power towards the center more than it empowers distributed forces. For example, protesters have more tools to organize but governments have more tools to know what protesters are up to, they know where protesters will show up, how many and who they are. So there are no surprises. Overall advantage…

More importantly, modern telecommunications (internet etc.) are government/military infrastructure under government control and surveillance. Just like GPS etc. It's often hard to remember this and sometimes we even pretend that the internet is a place free of government control, which is delusional. The wires, cables and radio towers are under military control in any kind of crisis. It boils down to this: If you're…

The thing with the internet is that governments are allowing themselves practices that have been long forbidden in the physical world, and for very good reasons. Whether the technology was initially a military technology is irrelevant.

In most democracies, the state cannot open your mail or tap your phone without a warrant. But for some reason it's fair game to tap all your electronic communications. The sort of things that this law enables is nothing short of forcing all libraries, bookshops and newsagents to ask your ID when you pick a book or newspaper, keep records of what you read and send them to the state. Imagine how this would have gone in the sixties when you had strong political clashes in the society, whether it was leftists or social rights movements.

I think the issue is that the cynicism and short-termism of French politicians is combined with a lack of understanding of the technology (even today that generation and social group barely uses internet) to form a perfect storm.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "encryption makes you a target" represents a lack of understanding for how spy agencies monitor all communications. It's not like spy agency analysts target only some people and when they are in their offices and see some encrypted traffic from someone they go: "AHA! This guy uses encryption - let's monitor his (encrypted) communications and his metadata!" It's more like everyone's wide-open communications are…

Not sure why @higherpurpose was downvoted, she or he described accurately the surveillance programs revealed by Ed, according to the leaked documents [1]. Of course we don't have the luxury of leaked French docs, but in the absence of data, we shouldn't automatically leap to the position supported by the least amount of evidence. [1] Selectors used: https://prod01-cdn00.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/20...

Because the description was one sided and neglected to mention NSA's VPN related activities. Eg that they actively seek to discover and keep track of VPN users. And that traffic analysis is generally as powerful as content inspection once you have a target.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#93

It's going to be very interesting to hear their excuses for this kind of nonsense. By now we now it'll hurt the french population most. It'll hurt their economy second (I'm a big fan of Gandi, but that might change very soon), and it won't protect anybody either. I have hoped learning from the mistakes the US gov made after 9/11 would be the one good thing coming out of 9/11.

I'm a customer too, will be at least moving the server to a different data-centre soon. In terms of mail, I'm not sure what to do, I _DO_ know that you not only need to trust the transportation of your mail, but also the receiving end. I have know times, when using secure communication, only to have the receiver store the messages in the USA.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's been established beyond doubt that in the USA the FBI basically creates terrorists by finding angry people and putting bombs in their hands (and ensures that they complete the plot that was invented for them, even if they wouldn't have been able to do it themselves). They then use the prevalence of terrorism to justify new powers. That's pretty damn close to what iuyoiuyy is talking about. Razor thin disti…

> it's been established beyond doubt that in the USA the > FBI basically creates terrorists This is where I ask for a citation, and get back one of: nothing, a bunch of links to cancelled false-flag operations from the 1960s, or a bunch of links to websites with name like OPENLIBERTYORG right?

Here it is http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/21/us-terrorism-prosecutions...

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#95
post #25

This is a huge setback, both for democracy and for the french tech ecosystem. While the most preeminent french hosting and cloud providers (OVH, Online, Gandi, Alter Way...) have been quite vocal about the issue, none of the big french telcos (Orange, SFR, Bouygues) have said a single word about it. Shame on them! 900 tech companies, research organisations, and trade associations (so far) have asked the government to…

I plan to use VPN in area that are NOT friendly with the OTAN, such as Russia. I'd rather have Putin spy on me, than my own governement, or its allies. He has far less influence over my life, and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating.

Better yet is to use multiple VPN services in nested chains, jumping among non-cooperating jurisdictions. It's easy to do, using pfSense VMs as VPN gateways.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#96
post #25

This is a huge setback, both for democracy and for the french tech ecosystem. While the most preeminent french hosting and cloud providers (OVH, Online, Gandi, Alter Way...) have been quite vocal about the issue, none of the big french telcos (Orange, SFR, Bouygues) have said a single word about it. Shame on them! 900 tech companies, research organisations, and trade associations (so far) have asked the government to…

I plan to use VPN in area that are NOT friendly with the OTAN, such as Russia. I'd rather have Putin spy on me, than my own governement, or its allies. He has far less influence over my life, and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating.

I'd be interested in a more reputable one as well. As in not injecting malware nilly-willy into my traffic. I'd appreciate if you could name some.

I think we are between a rock and a hard place here. I'd be willing to use a VPN in a non-cooperating country to evade state surveillance, but it is hard to make sure that you don't fall prey to non-state (or even maybe state) actors.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#97

Talking to friends lived or are still living in France, here are just some of the problems I heard: - in Paris, it's common to get robbed, and sometimes beaten up if you are not careful, and cops can do nothing. This is from a guy who went to school in Paris, I can't imagine what's it like to be a girl. - some of the non-French speaking neighbourhoods are quite dangerous, even cops would avoid going there for their o…

Regarding murders and homicides, here a recent paper from Le Monde:

http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2015/05/06/en-20...

In other words, murders and voluntary homicides have regressed by 65% over the last 20 years in the Paris Region.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#98
This is disappointing news, not only for French people but also this is a trend in many countries.

I am a huge fan of Katherine Austin Fitts (solari.com) and while she discusses this type of policy that is harmful to average people, she makes the good point that there is not much to be done about it so it is better adapt to a non optimal world in ways we can control: understanding how central banks and the financial systems work, understand governments' desire for population control, etc.

I have mostly worked remotely as a consultant since 1997 and any prohibition against routine encryption would make it difficult for me to do business. I expect to see a trend where more small countries promote privacy and more secure non hacked by government infrastructure in an attempt at being more competitive, business wise.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#99
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating. You guys build warships for Putin's war machine which is murdering civilians in Ukraine, something the French knew they were going to empower someday with arms like these. You don't buy helicarriers for defense, you buy them to easily attack your neighbors. Ties between these two nations go back hundreds of years. I would absolutely not assume the FSB…

Do you have a source for heli-carrier being deployed in Ukraine?

I didnt say they were. My argument is that the French enable the Russian war machine. Just because these things aren't being used in the current conflict doens't mean they won't be used on Russia's neighbors in the future.

Countries with militaries that enable each other have tight intel relationships. This French/Russia rivalry is non-existant.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't pretend to have a high standard of evidence and yet never even consider any evidence that contradicts what you want to believe. Furthermore just because two masked men kills innocent people that does not imply anything about who commit the crime. Your "obvious" belief is only obvious because it's what you want to believe. All you have to do is look at what independent investigators like Chossudovsky have fo…

You condemn us for not considering evidence that contradicts what we want to believe, but you don't actually present any . Telling us to "look at what independent investigators like Chossudovsky have found" isn't much. Maybe a URL? Maybe more than one? Who are these people who are "like Chossudovsky"?

I've found that 'evidence please' is 9 times out of 10 to be a tactic to dismiss a point of view. Even when talking about facts that I can link to scientific peer reviewed papers, I am accustom to a request of evidence to indicate an attempt to call a bluff and not an actual desire to see evidence on an issue.
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