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Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

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Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#311

Post by crimsonalucard »

juliangregorian wrote: post #271
crimsonalucard wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He dabbles in code, on occasion. I'm talking about a love of code that takes you back into the trenches. I never said everyone is like me. But in my opinion most people are like me. If you look at the world around you and how career paths are set up, how society is setup and the general nature of most human beings... imo it is the most logical conclusion.

Actually, you did: > We're all human, we may love programming and farming > we're all working toward retirement I also appreciate how Bill Gates transformed from an elite coder into a dabbler as soon as it suited your argument. You're evidently not someone who ever let facts got in the way of a good story.

>Actually, you did:

>> We're all human, we may love programming and farming

>> we're all working toward retirement

ok my bad, I didn't mean everyone as in everyone on the face of the earth. There's obviously outliers, I made a mistake for not specifying that.

> also appreciate how Bill Gates transformed from an elite coder into a dabbler as soon as it suited your argument.

What the hell is this? Can we not have a civil conversation without insulting each other?

I am NOT Changing my argument. As of what I KNOW, Bill Gates is currently a dabbler. He doesn't code regularly he's not part of any big coding projects. But back in the heyday he was an excellent coder and his code was responsible for much of early success in Microsoft.

Your attitude is not conducive to civil conversation and you're really pissing me off. You accused me of changing my argument even though from my perspective I did not. You say stupid shit about me like this:

"You're evidently not someone who ever let facts got in the way of a good story."

I understand we may have different perspectives, but there are better ways of expressing it then being excessively negative. You could of asked me what I meant by things that have been inconsistent in our conversation, you could have politely asked about the conflicting details. There is no need say I am "obviously" someone who ignores facts.

Please refer to proper etiquette below:

http://blog.ycombinator.com/new-hacker-news-guideline

That's my last word. I'm not going to continue on with a whole flame war and populate this thread with anymore shitty comments that no one wants to read.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#312

Post by crimsonalucard »

SiVal wrote: post #280
crimsonalucard wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

Some of us aren't just "saying" we love programming; we do. If I were a billionaire, I would no more pay someone to do my programming than pay them to take my vacations. I think your talk of "the trenches" is telling, though. The more money I have, the less I have to work on other people's projects and the more I can work on my own. Just as travel-lovers with more money can do less business travel to unpleasant desti…

Don't get me wrong. I love programming too, and I certainly have my own projects on the side.

But work is work, which this person is doing. People who say that working as a coder is like going to disneyland everyday because their totally enamored by programming... I find it hard to believe that many people are like that. Burn out is a real thing.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#313

Post by crimsonalucard »

data_scientist wrote: post #275
crimsonalucard wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

I just saw a tweet of Notch > Turns out unrolling tight inner loops really speeds them up! 38% speedup from that alone. Makes sense, it's doing one eight of the branching https://twitter.com/notch/status/595509436040491008 Even billionaires may want to micro-optimize! Bonus point: he is developing for a "20 years old platform"

There's always outliers, which is what I think Notch is... Without quantitative data I may be totally wrong though.

I still think most people would stop coding once they had the resources to command other people to do it for them. Take for instance, Elon Musk, I'm pretty sure he's no longer in the trenches. That guy started coding at 12.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#314

Post by [deleted] »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #236
jorgeleo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The farm life works for some people" I agree. I couldn't do farm, I have bad allergies to pollen, dust, and too much time under the sun and I become red as a lobster, and it is painful But programming is what I love to do. So I will say "The programmer life works for some people" I wouldn't call the original article "The death of a programmer", I would call it "The born of a farmer". He figure out were he feels happ…

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

[deleted]

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#315

Post by crimsonalucard »

learc83 wrote: post #270
crimsonalucard wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

I love to cook, but I don't love to peel potatoes. Just because a chef pays someone else to do the drudge work doesn't mean he doesn't love to cook. When people say they love programming. They mean they love building interesting things, solving interesting problems, and using interesting tools. Unfortunately, actual programs are full of boring parts. Yes, most programmers would pay someone to finish the boring parts,…

Yeah I get it. I love programming too.

There certain folks who claim that going to a job everyday is like going to disneyland because they're doing what they love. I find this concept hard to believe. I'm just trying to express: yes people may love programming, but programming at work is still "work" which is very different from "play"; both of which can be done with a programming language.

I should mention lest I get accused saying everyone is like me, that there are outliers. There exists people who love programming so much that they never burn out.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#316

Post by crimsonalucard »

randomdata wrote: post #255
crimsonalucard wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

I guess it is impossible to say for sure, but I feel like if I had billions, I would still want to farm commercially – just with much nicer equipment than I have now. Something like 30% of farmers are 65+ years of age. I would suggest it is not because they cannot afford to retire, especially with the price of land these days, but because it is something they love to do. Anecdotally, a neighbour of mine made millions…

I think most people wouldn't go into farming. They'd use the billion dollars to chase some crazy dream, retire, party hard, spend extravagantly, go on vacation, travel the world, start a new venture... anything but farming or doing something totally plain... but that's just my opinion, I'd actually like to see some hard data on what billionaires do with their time.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#317

Post by dredwerker »

waffle_ss wrote: post #206
jroseattle wrote: post #81

I grew up on a farm. Not surprised to see this decision in the slightest. Farming is tough -- physically, financially, and in the end emotionally. But it is still a very rewarding life. I can remember sitting on my grandfather's lap, riding on his John Deere two-cylinder (it was called a Johnny Popper.) Pre-school? I went to pre-farming. I was probably 3 years old the first time I rode a tractor. By the time I was 8,…

I also grew up on a farm - a dairy farm in northern Wisconsin to be precise, which my father and younger brother still operate. Farming can be awesome. The hard physical work and exercise are satisfying, and you'll often encounter problems that need to be solved quickly and ingeniously (e.g. some implement breaks and you need to come up with a quick fix while the sun's still up). You can really build a camaraderie wi…

". And it's really hard to find good hired workers to help out, because nowadays no one wants to do strenuous physical labor for relatively low pay" I wonder why :)

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#318

Post by pugio »

Nicholas_C wrote: post #227
pugio wrote: post #211

This is probably too extreme of a life change for most people to implement, but there are ways to gain some of the benefits without an entire lifestyle upheaval. Recently I've begun camping on business trips instead of using my hotel budget. I'll fly in with a tent, sleeping bag, laptop, and cooler bag, rent a car, and set up camp in whichever campground is closest to the city. Most of these places are meant for loca…

> In the morning I drive into the city for business, then head back out to the campsite to hike, sit and think, and code. I haven't taken a smartphone with me, so those after-city hours are devoid of the usual notification hail. You must be a great programmer because there is no way I could program without Stack Overflow/Google.

Yeah, I said the same thing before I started this. But that's when I'm waste deep in code and I hit the inevitable stumbling block of a weird library bug, missing config option, strange behavior, etc.

That addictive, power-through flow state is hard to maintain without instant SO/Google access, and for many years that was the only way I coded. But I've begun to relish the other mode of programming: the deep thought and careful mental construction of the optimal program, piece by piece, module by module. Sure, I can't bang out as many lines at night, but when I go into the city in the morning I have a mental view of underlying structure – laid out in clear, bold strokes – that makes my SO-enabled coding so much more effective, and directed.*

(*I've noticed that letting SO answer a question prevents any pause which would make you step back from your work and ask "Am I even taking the right approach here?" Low latency, REPLs, and quick access answers make it very easy to go down a rabbit hole – the dark side of exploratory coding.)

And yes, as others have mentioned, I do cache and wget all the docs for whatever tools I'm currently using. With all that, it's hard to get truly stuck, even without the internet.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#319

Post by randomdata »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #316
randomdata wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it is impossible to say for sure, but I feel like if I had billions, I would still want to farm commercially – just with much nicer equipment than I have now. Something like 30% of farmers are 65+ years of age. I would suggest it is not because they cannot afford to retire, especially with the price of land these days, but because it is something they love to do. Anecdotally, a neighbour of mine made millions…

I think most people wouldn't go into farming. They'd use the billion dollars to chase some crazy dream, retire, party hard, spend extravagantly, go on vacation, travel the world, start a new venture... anything but farming or doing something totally plain... but that's just my opinion, I'd actually like to see some hard data on what billionaires do with their time.

We can ascertain that at least 50 billionaires are classified as farmers[1] in the USA. How involved they are with the operation is more difficult to quantify, but being completely hands off would surprise me.

Even for my own farming operation, it only takes about four weeks out of the year of my time. It's not like I'm up at sunrise 365 days per year, breaking my back until sunset, like some people seem to picture. I consider it to be my vacation away from the day job as a programmer. I mean, what is more fun than operating highly advanced heavy equipment that costs more than high end sports cars? I can't imaging having billions of dollars at my disposal making that less exciting – it is a tech nerd's paradise.

[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethhoffman/2013/11/07/50-billio...

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#320

Post by josinalvo »

sedachv wrote: post #295
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my neck of the woods, population density is not an issue. The decision by condo developers to dedicate the bottom floor to small retail storefronts has surprisingly become quite disruptive! I don't consider pawn shops and e-cig shops keeping things vibrant. Nice bars and clubs, restaurants, and unique retail do. Personally, I think pawn shops and payday loan stores are predatory and should be highly regulated if n…

> High margin junk like that edges out nicer stores because condo associations just want to go with the quick cash. For example, a lot of women here would love more boutique stores but the rent these stores can afford is being edged out by the guy selling $50 e-cigs. I don't understand, you just claimed the rent is too low, now you are saying it's too high for boutiques. > I'm okay letting the market sort it out. You…

you, dear friend, are assuming too much
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