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An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

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Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#81

Post by jmtulloss »

dschobel wrote: post #27
jmtulloss wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that they can't. Give Microsoft a compelling business reason to build a great browser that also supports IE 8,7, and 6 rendering modes, and I bet they'll do it.

Isn't reclaiming the 20-30% market share they lost to Safari/Firefox/Chrome reason enough?

Probably not. I suspect that as long as IE is the default browser on Windows, their revenue doesn't change that much year over year. People who don't change their default homepage don't change their browser either.

What is a compelling reason is revenue loss in their cash-cow franchises like Office. If they come to believe that they need a version of Office that works in the browser or they will lose revenue, then developing a fast version of IE is very important. If they believe that people won't use a computer that doesn't provide them with great experiences on the sites they love right out of the box, then developing a standards compliant version of IE is important.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#82

Post by shiranaihito »

jodrellblank wrote: post #79
shiranaihito wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post something with content, support your whining, talk about it. Content? I did mention a few examples, didn't I? Well then, would you care to tell me why they're all invalid? I've done this kind of thing before, and every time someone disparages MS here, he's treading on thin ice. There will always be MS-apologists around. Microsoft have opened their internal development to the world over the past few years They su…

Content? I did mention a few examples, didn't I? Well then, would you care to tell me why they're all invalid? They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9. They are valid in a discussion about web development in general... except they are arguing against your citing 'netscape' and 'holding back web development' because this blog is about MS not holding back web development an…

They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9.

Well then, why did you insist that I should "support my whining"? I'm pretty sure my "whining" was just as not related to IE9 as it is now.

Besides, if you squint and look really hard, you'll notice my goal here was not really to discuss the finer points of IE 9. You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surmise I care?

They are valid in a discussion about web development in general... except they are arguing against your citing 'netscape' and 'holding back web development' because this blog is about MS not holding back web development and not destroying a competing browser.

I take it that MS discussing IE 9 on a blog means that they actually never did any of the things I listed?

People in this page are saying bad things about Microsoft, about their javascript interpreter speed, their lack of canvas support and rounded corners and font handling and they aren't being voted down. Any guesses why?

Wouldn't this be related to "holding back web development"?

I am an MS apologist. I have worked with their stuff for the last six years and find it (mostly) better than I previously thought, and not deserving of quite as much of the mudslinging as actually happens online.

Glad you came clean. Even I realize that they've been working hard to improve the .NET platform. They have to, because their grip on the world is dependent on developers, developers, developers.. Did you see what they did to improve IE while they weren't worried? Oh that's right! -Nothing.

Don't know anything much about Islam and couldn't give two whoots.

See, now that's the exact same problem I'm trying to solve. You should know that there are people following a 1300-year-old sacred manual on how to behave that says "kill everyone who's not a muslim", and it's happening in 2000-fucking-9.

You don't see Christians going on Crusades anymore, but you do see enraged muslims shouting that they'll destroy Europe. And Europe's collective reaction? -To apologize, look away, and hope that they calm down.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#83

Post by statictype »

ecoffey wrote: post #33

Here is what I want them to do: Release an IE shell that wraps WebKit. Leave all the Trident DLL's there since they're heavily baked in for help file viewers and other OS bits and parts. No one (except for us nerds) care what rendering engine they use as long as things look ok and work. What people do care about is the UI the use to get to content. So the IE can go balls to the wall crazy with whatever UI they think…

Problem is, a lot of custom software depends on ActiveX controls and other plugins that work in IE but not anywhere else.

Until WebKit or Gecko start wrapping activex (not likely and doesn't seem like something they should be spending time on anyway), IE will continue to have significant usage - at least within companies.

Also, there's the pride issue of dropping their own rendering engine for one sponsored by Apple.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#84

Post by jodrellblank »

shiranaihito wrote: post #82
jodrellblank wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content? I did mention a few examples, didn't I? Well then, would you care to tell me why they're all invalid? They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9. They are valid in a discussion about web development in general... except they are arguing against your citing 'netscape' and 'holding back web development' because this blog is about MS not holding back web development an…

They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9. Well then, why did you insist that I should "support my whining"? I'm pretty sure my "whining" was just as not related to IE9 as it is now. Besides, if you squint and look really hard, you'll notice my goal here was not really to discuss the finer points of IE 9. You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surm…

You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surmise I care?

I guess I'll say the same about your terrorist scaremongering and call it a day then. Nice talking with you.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#85

Post by cakesy »

jmtulloss wrote: post #81
dschobel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't reclaiming the 20-30% market share they lost to Safari/Firefox/Chrome reason enough?

Probably not. I suspect that as long as IE is the default browser on Windows, their revenue doesn't change that much year over year. People who don't change their default homepage don't change their browser either. What is a compelling reason is revenue loss in their cash-cow franchises like Office. If they come to believe that they need a version of Office that works in the browser or they will lose revenue, then de…

Yeah, but if they destroy all other browsers again, then they don't have to do any work on improving browsers. Making browsers actually goes against their business process, they want everyone on the desktop, not the web. They have been dragged into the web, and hated every step of it.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#86

Post by shiranaihito »

jodrellblank wrote: post #84
shiranaihito wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9. Well then, why did you insist that I should "support my whining"? I'm pretty sure my "whining" was just as not related to IE9 as it is now. Besides, if you squint and look really hard, you'll notice my goal here was not really to discuss the finer points of IE 9. You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surm…

You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surmise I care? I guess I'll say the same about your terrorist scaremongering and call it a day then. Nice talking with you.

The difference is that you really should. Oh, and I'm not talking about terrorists. I guess that's what it looks like to an American.

Are terrorists known for holding protests on London's streets where they shout they'll destroy Europe? No? What are those people then?

You call it scaremongering, I could call it trying to dislodge heads from asses, or just "trying to spread awareness" as I said earlier.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#87

Post by shiranaihito »

jodrellblank wrote: post #84
shiranaihito wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9. Well then, why did you insist that I should "support my whining"? I'm pretty sure my "whining" was just as not related to IE9 as it is now. Besides, if you squint and look really hard, you'll notice my goal here was not really to discuss the finer points of IE 9. You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surm…

You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surmise I care? I guess I'll say the same about your terrorist scaremongering and call it a day then. Nice talking with you.

I'm sure you had good counter-arguments for everything I said too.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#88

Post by akamaka »

halo wrote: post #16
akamaka wrote: post #13

Summary: still a long way to go. No announcement yet on @font-face, canvas, video. Basic performance improvements.

The @font-face spec doesn't mention a font standard, and Microsoft have already said they won't implement TTF or OTF because the font foundries don't like it. It's possible that IE will implement the upcoming WOFF (Web Open Font Format) standard in IE9 but I wouldn't rely on it.

Sigh.

Thanks a bunch for the info.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#89

Post by pohl »

etherealG wrote: post #57
pohl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be right about that. There's another one in the Media Center division, and it happens to be much more strict with respect to standards, although perhaps not as full-featured.

mind elaborating on this? I'd love to hear about it.

A friend and former colleague used to work there. He was pretty parsimonious with the details, unfortunately.

Re: An Early Look At IE9 for Developers

#90

Post by cracell »

billybob wrote: post #47
dschobel wrote: post #6

Maybe I'm just an optimist but I'm really glad to see that MS is even looking at the Acid3 and SunSpider tests as important metrics.

Me too. Not that they have much choice. Even the non-geeks in my office have noticed that they can work faster with Firefox. As more things move to the web, built on web standards, they can't afford to continue having the worst browser by far.

To be far. IE8 is vastly better then IE7 and IE6 but Microsoft is not aggressive about getting it's users to upgrade. Whereas Firefox, Safari and especially Chrome are.
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