maybe she said she "was not really a programmer" because she didn't want to be associated with one (consciously or not). I have heard that sometimes women view programming as a low-status job i.e. akin to labor.
The programming talent myth
101–110 of 354 posts
Re: The programming talent myth
#102In this topic: people demonstrate they don't know what "bimodal" means. A normal distribution of programming talent doesn't preclude the existence of "10x" programmers.
Re: The programming talent myth
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> I will certainly never say "anyone can learn how to code" any more than I'd say "anyone can become a concert pianist" or "anyone can become a master painter." So learning to code is equivalent to being a master painter or concert pianist? Which both are amongst the top 1% of their field probably. Anyone can learn how to paint or play a piano, the level they'll achieve won't be the same everyone, but anyone can do…
I can't speak for the painting side of things, but no, not everyone can learn how to play a piano. For one thing, left-hand / right-hand independence isn't a universal trait, and isn't something that can always be "learned" (there's a reason why chord / melody books are so popular). Finger independence is even trickier. Sight reading, relative (or even perfect) pitch -- these are _talents_ that make a good performanc…
That is not what the article says. It's about an attitude that only great programmers are welcome and average programmers aren't worth anything.
Re: The programming talent myth
#104I'd say that the 'talent' of programming comes from the tenacity to handle all kinds of bullshit and be able to adapt and survive in this environment. Just setting up a Python environment on Windows is a nightmare, and most people will just give up. Second part of the talent is the experience of how to handle or avoid all the bullshit and get the work done.
Re: The programming talent myth
#105The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIJdFxYlEKE YouTube doesn't have playback at 3x speed, unfortunately.
Open dev tools console: document.getElementsByTagName("video")[0].playbackRate = 3.0;
TY!
Turned it into a bookmarklet†.
† javascript:document.getElementsByTagName("video")[0].playbackRate = 3.0;
Re: The programming talent myth
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apologies on possible tone misunderstanding. I did not mean that point one was bad or at all incorrect. Just stating my follow on point that there is open research as to how something like that came to be. More, I think something like this can not really be attacked at the point where we are looking at people being hired for a job. The causes for a bimodal distribution in ability will likely stem much farther back th…
I agree that any talent shortage is likely to be an upstream problem from hiring. I don't agree that eliminating a bimodal model is desirable though. We don't really need more people in the middle of the talent trough because they don't actually add much value and can often detract value (in my experience). Successful programming is the grappling with immense complexity. You really only want the best and brightest do…
I didn't realize I put forth that the bimodal should be eliminated. Just that I don't think it should be taken as a natural fact. It may be that eliminating it is meaningless. It may be that keeping it is meaningless.
Consider, do you really care about having the best and brightest doing something. Or just getting the best results. Odds are high that those align at least somewhat with each other. I don't know if it is a foregone conclusion, though. Study will show.
If you have experience that a normal distribution brings down the top end, I'd be interested in seeing it. If it is just a gut feeling, it is something that can be tested. If it can't be tested...
Re: The programming talent myth
#107That programming is a talent is not a myth, and while my life is currently devoted to developing a platform to encourage more people to learn the basics of computer science, I will certainly never say "anyone can learn how to code" any more than I'd say "anyone can become a concert pianist" or "anyone can become a master painter." Good programming is an art, and requires talent on the part of the programmer. There's…
A more accurate analogy would be "anyone can learn the piano well enough to play in a bar and entertain patrons", i.e. not in the 1% of piano players, but you are good enough to be effective at a job.
Also, I felt that the point of the article isn't that anyone can code, it's that we are discouraging people who COULD have coded.
Re: The programming talent myth
#108I think one difference between this lady who built a complex system and "a programmer" is that the typical professional programmer works on a legacy system.
Re: The programming talent myth
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this akin to claiming that drawing is bimodal because most people can't draft a portrait in an interview. Or, worse, that there is an element of gender influence in ability because, "otherwise there would be more female programmers." I certainly agree that there is likely a gulf between good and great. Probably another above it. I'm curious to know what actual evidence there is.
Most people can't draft a portrait in an interview for a programming job. Most people interviewed as portrait artists would, as would quite a lot of people in related trades (such as graphic designers). The fact that programming interviewers give this kind of test and it's widely failed shows what a bad state objective evaluation of programmers is in.
If portrait artist trades were paying as highly as programming, I'd wager you'd see a lot more failures at that level, as well.
Re: The programming talent myth
#110That programming is a talent is not a myth, and while my life is currently devoted to developing a platform to encourage more people to learn the basics of computer science, I will certainly never say "anyone can learn how to code" any more than I'd say "anyone can become a concert pianist" or "anyone can become a master painter." Good programming is an art, and requires talent on the part of the programmer. There's…
A more accurate analogy would be "anyone can learn the piano well enough to play in a bar and entertain patrons", i.e. not in the 1% of piano players, but you are good enough to be effective at a job. Also, I felt that the point of the article isn't that anyone can code, it's that we are discouraging people who COULD have coded.
Which, for a consultant, means more work for me.