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Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

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Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#71

Post by tw04 »

philippnagel wrote: post #40
nphyte wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well finding a sustainable affable way to make money to sustain operations is essential. Offcourse privacy is important however providing access to the non biased internet should be a priority.

Definitely. We should think about an innovative business model or employ traditional non-profit funding methods. You can e-mail me at phil@philippnagel.com if you wish.

I think you'll find "please donate to give free internet access to poor people in India" will be met with harsh, harsh feedback from the general public.

Unless you've got a rabbit in your hat, I don't see any way you're going to give people complete privacy while still providing free internet access. If there were a solution, don't you think we'd already have it in one of the western nations as an alternative to paid internet access?

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#72

Post by chdir »

_lce0 wrote: post #64

> We’re building an open platform and anyone who meets these guidelines will be able to participate , They are anything but open. They have already proven that they only care about "open" to get some traction about their new platform; once they have many people using it, they will lock down the garden. open-graph anyone?

More like, > We’re building a platform to open up your privacy... and decide which app is good for you.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#73

Post by pmontra »

madez wrote: post #15
pmontra wrote: post #6

Better than their first attempt but still not the real thing. If you want to give internet for free to some people there are no alternatives than paying them a full blown data connection with no artificial limits. I believe that my original comment of 2 weeks ago is still relevant: "Dear Mark, this open-to-ISP initiative is one way to look at what you're doing. Another one is closed-to-most-of-the-Internet. Let's tur…

Facebook is a business. Don't be naive. They don't care for poor people, they care about getting money. They are even obligated to do so. Don't expect business to solve all issues for humanity, because they won't. A government is needed to take responsability we don't want to entrust business with and to do necessary things no business wants to do, and it needs to be strong to be able to do it even if business oppose…

They are not obligated to do so. They are obligated to do what the majority of the shares want to do, even giving all their money away in charity. If the CEO doesn't comply, the board elects a new CEO. Anyway the shareholders usually care about profit, even short term one, so companies as entities usually "care about getting money".

By the way, this is a quote from Facebook's IPO letter http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/0001193125120... (it was pretty debated at the time so it's easy to remember it)

"[...] we frequently make product decisions that may reduce our short-term revenue or profitability if we believe that the decisions are consistent with our mission and benefit the aggregate user experience and will thereby improve our financial performance over the long term. These decisions may not produce the long-term benefits that we expect, in which case our user growth and engagement, our relationships with developers and advertisers, and our business and results of operations could be harmed."

It was easy to write that at the time of the IPO but as shareholder become more institutional I believe that the pressure for short term gains increases. I wonder where Facebook is now.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#74

Post by anonbanker »

personjerry wrote: post #62

I think despite all our criticisms (especially noting that we as a community are far more aware of the consequences of net neutrality), we are missing the big picture. There is no net neutrality without the net. The idea of bringing internet access worldwide is a noble one, and though there certainly might be problems that arise in the attempt to get there, the entire Internet.org project, in my opinion, is a step fo…

The man that called the world "fucking idiots" for trusting him with their personal information is somehow "less soulless" than other CEO's.

Somehow, that statement seems equal with, as Doug Stanhope put it, being the prettiest Denny's waitress.

But this is the top voted comment at this time, so HN seems to have a very short memory.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#75

Post by philippnagel »

tw04 wrote: post #71
philippnagel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. We should think about an innovative business model or employ traditional non-profit funding methods. You can e-mail me at phil@philippnagel.com if you wish.

I think you'll find "please donate to give free internet access to poor people in India" will be met with harsh, harsh feedback from the general public. Unless you've got a rabbit in your hat, I don't see any way you're going to give people complete privacy while still providing free internet access. If there were a solution, don't you think we'd already have it in one of the western nations as an alternative to paid…

You are probably right. Simply throwing money at the problem and obtaining money to throw in the first place might not be working.

One has to come up with a business model that is sustainable while providing free internet access. Sort of like Zenefits (http://www.zenefits.com) gives away their SaaS HR platform for free and makes money through insurance brokering.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#76

Post by mkagenius »

captn3m0 wrote: post #46
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

If it's a choice between Wikipedia and Facebook, or nothing at all, telling poor Indians they should only be allowed to have the latter seems quite cruel. Yes, it's unfortunate they can't be given the whole Internet, but the fact they can get anything at all should be celebrated.

As an Indian, believe me when I say this: "We already have good internet". Our data rates are extremely cheap. I paid less than 1 INR per day (it costs more to get a cup of coffee, which costs around 5-10 bucks) while using Opera Mini on a Nokia dumbphone. India has progressed beyond the point where rich corporations need to help our country. We have amongst the world's largest telecom industry and usage statistics.…

>As an Indian, believe me when I say this: "We already have good internet". Our data rates are extremely cheap. I paid less than 1 INR per day (it costs more to get a cup of coffee, which costs around 5-10 bucks) while using Opera Mini on a Nokia dumbphone.

I don't know which part of the country you live in but most of rural India can't even pay Rs. 1 per day for the internet. Also they can't even afford smartphones.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#77

Post by philippnagel »

nphyte wrote: post #53
philippnagel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. We should think about an innovative business model or employ traditional non-profit funding methods. You can e-mail me at phil@philippnagel.com if you wish.

my hands are full sorry. i could dedicate a few(3-5) hours a week

I am currently just brainstorming. No need for commitment.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#78

Post by captn3m0 »

mkagenius wrote: post #76
captn3m0 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Indian, believe me when I say this: "We already have good internet". Our data rates are extremely cheap. I paid less than 1 INR per day (it costs more to get a cup of coffee, which costs around 5-10 bucks) while using Opera Mini on a Nokia dumbphone. India has progressed beyond the point where rich corporations need to help our country. We have amongst the world's largest telecom industry and usage statistics.…

>As an Indian, believe me when I say this: "We already have good internet". Our data rates are extremely cheap. I paid less than 1 INR per day (it costs more to get a cup of coffee, which costs around 5-10 bucks) while using Opera Mini on a Nokia dumbphone. I don't know which part of the country you live in but most of rural India can't even pay Rs. 1 per day for the internet. Also they can't even afford smartphones.

And how will they access internet.org without a smartphone?

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#79

Post by patrickaljord »

bottled_poe wrote: post #66
patrickaljord wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an old debate, are businesses more effective than governments at taking people out of poverty? I don't think people will ever agree on that, I believe businesses are more effective for the simple reason that they create things of value that people want to buy and work for, unlike governments. It could also be said that although businesses primary motive is making money and not helping the poor, a politician's…

> businesses are more effective for the simple reason that they create things of value that people want to buy and work for, unlike governments. Not sure about you, but I can think of a few minor things provided by government which some people might value: 1. Social order 2. A legal system 3. Safety and security services 4. Political representation at a national level 5. An education system 6. Public transportation n…

You're right, government does create value, sorry if what I said wasn't very clear. What I meant was the last part of the sentence, private enterprise creates things people want to buy, willingly so, government create things people are forced to buy by law, by the power of guns.

As for what you listed, many of these services could be provided by private enterprise and are in many country, successfully so, in fact more so than in the US.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#80

Post by patrickaljord »

Trombone12 wrote: post #69
patrickaljord wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an old debate, are businesses more effective than governments at taking people out of poverty? I don't think people will ever agree on that, I believe businesses are more effective for the simple reason that they create things of value that people want to buy and work for, unlike governments. It could also be said that although businesses primary motive is making money and not helping the poor, a politician's…

I agree that (some) people will probably never agree on the government vs private enterprise debate, but I will point out that prior to the welfare state and world war 2 wealth inequality was either high or growing rapidly: these are the historical facts. So from history we learn that private enterprise reduces relative poverty primarily by destroying the capital of the wealthiest, not by distributing or generating w…

I don't think inequality is a problem, when people are completely free to exploit their full potential to succeed in life, this means some people will do way better than others. I'm very bad at playing the piano, basketball, painting of creating huge corporations, some people are very good at those things and a free economy allows them to do so. Good for them.

As for inequalities being a problem, as long as the quality of life improves for all, I don't see where's the problem. The poorest in America live longer and are more educated than the richest men in the world less than a century ago. Not bad.

> Also to claim that governments that produces such things as the law, education systems, and national defence have no valuable products is a bit odd.

If it's so valuable then why force people to pay for it? Nobody was ever forced to buy an iphone or a volkswagen. Anyway, my point is that government is not synonymous with goodness and corporations evil, which was parent's point. Both are made up of people who usually are not evil.

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