Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#41

Post by icebraining » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:22 AM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #28

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

If it's a choice between Wikipedia and Facebook, or nothing at all, telling poor Indians they should only be allowed to have the latter seems quite cruel. Yes, it's unfortunate they can't be given the whole Internet, but the fact they can get anything at all should be celebrated.

Nope. We train them that way the internet is scarce, closed and walled. A DSL line and a wifi router could cover a whole village and give the real deal.

We train them that way the internet is scarce, closed and walled.

The Internet used to be scarce, closed and walled in the US and Europe. People adjust to the new conditions as they develop.

A DSL line and a wifi router could cover a whole village and give the real deal.

You write "a DSL line" as if India wasn't a 3M km² country and with huge areas without even central electricity supply. What would be the cost of installing "a DSL line" for the 600k+ villages in India?

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#42

Post by Garbage » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:25 AM UTC

Can somebody please point me to the technical guidelines section? The link mentioned[1] in the original article[2] is giving 404.

[1] https://www.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technica...

[2] https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/05/announcing-the-internet...

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#43

Post by 1234567890123 » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:27 AM UTC

Garbage wrote: post #42

Can somebody please point me to the technical guidelines section? The link mentioned[1] in the original article[2] is giving 404. [1] https://www.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technica... [2] https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/05/announcing-the-internet...

https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-t...

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#44

Post by dfabulich » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:31 AM UTC

Garbage wrote: post #42

Can somebody please point me to the technical guidelines section? The link mentioned[1] in the original article[2] is giving 404. [1] https://www.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technica... [2] https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/05/announcing-the-internet...

The link should be https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-t... (they used "www.facebook.com" where they should have used "developers.facebook.com")

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#45

Post by rabbyte » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:32 AM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

If it's a choice between Wikipedia and Facebook, or nothing at all, telling poor Indians they should only be allowed to have the latter seems quite cruel. Yes, it's unfortunate they can't be given the whole Internet, but the fact they can get anything at all should be celebrated.

Saying that the choice is between partial access or nothing at all implies there can be no other option. Also something is not necessarily better than nothing; especially when that "something" influences societal norms or establishes powerful relationships.

Let's say everyone in a small country has to travel 10 miles every day for work. They can walk the 10 miles or sign up for a free car. You might say it would be cruel to deny people the option of a free car, especially if they see nothing wrong with the terms and conditions. But what if the cars can only tune to radio stations that peddle the same message? So what, it's free, right? Well, what if there are no seat belts, air bags, or turn signals? At some point it's conceivable what began as an obviously good deal can actually bring a lot of harm. Given that this particular deal requires no SSL, I don't think this car analogy is that far off.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#46

Post by captn3m0 » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

If it's a choice between Wikipedia and Facebook, or nothing at all, telling poor Indians they should only be allowed to have the latter seems quite cruel. Yes, it's unfortunate they can't be given the whole Internet, but the fact they can get anything at all should be celebrated.

As an Indian, believe me when I say this: "We already have good internet". Our data rates are extremely cheap. I paid less than 1 INR per day (it costs more to get a cup of coffee, which costs around 5-10 bucks) while using Opera Mini on a Nokia dumbphone.

India has progressed beyond the point where rich corporations need to help our country. We have amongst the world's largest telecom industry and usage statistics. Everyone owns a cellphone, and more and more people are realizing the benefits of a smartphone (Whatsapp primarily, which is way cheaper than SMS).

A basic android smartphone costs 100 USD in India. If a person can purchase a smartphone that costly to "access the internet", they are rich enough to afford a data plan (which costs around 3 USD/month).

No, we should not be celebrating this.

(I hope this did not come across as a rant, slightly furious now).

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#47

Post by venomsnake » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:47 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #41

venomsnake wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. We train them that way the internet is scarce, closed and walled. A DSL line and a wifi router could cover a whole village and give the real deal.

We train them that way the internet is scarce, closed and walled. The Internet used to be scarce, closed and walled in the US and Europe. People adjust to the new conditions as they develop. A DSL line and a wifi router could cover a whole village and give the real deal. You write "a DSL line" as if India wasn't a 3M km² country and with huge areas without even central electricity supply. What would be the cost of in…

> What would be the cost of installing "a DSL line" for the 600k+ villages in India?

Worthy

> without central electricity supply.

If you have electricity for a base station and charging phones, you also have for pbx and copper wire.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#48

Post by captn3m0 » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:50 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #41

venomsnake wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. We train them that way the internet is scarce, closed and walled. A DSL line and a wifi router could cover a whole village and give the real deal.

We train them that way the internet is scarce, closed and walled. The Internet used to be scarce, closed and walled in the US and Europe. People adjust to the new conditions as they develop. A DSL line and a wifi router could cover a whole village and give the real deal. You write "a DSL line" as if India wasn't a 3M km² country and with huge areas without even central electricity supply. What would be the cost of in…

2g Internet in India already has high penetration, with most urban areas (any place with >10000 population) having 3g access.

I am not sure about DSL lines, but BSNL (Indian public telecom operator) has faced this exact issue 10 years back when telephones (landlines) were becoming commonplace in India. We got a personal phone somewhere in '98 I believe. It only took a few more years before the telephone lines had reached Dangoli (which is my remote native village).

Today, the very same village boasts of multiple telecom operators (cellular). We have done this in the past, and we are doing exceedingly well even today.

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#49

Post by captn3m0 » Mon, May 04, 2015, 10:55 AM UTC

higherpurpose wrote: post #7

This makes it seem more like a Internet.org is just a technical decision rather than Facebook trying to become the "new Internet" in emerging countries. However, I don't think this alleviates the net neutrality problems at all. Too many types of Internet services are being excluded, which means it will inevitably create a "two-tier" Internet. There will be the 80-percenters in India who will only have access to "info…

There is also the issue that internet.org is exclusively available to Reliance customers. You want free internet? Well, you will get it, but you have to accept the shitty telecom policies (non-internet) that reliance brings with it.

Reliance is also known to be trigger-happy ISP, with lots of censorship issues. (Reliance also owns a media company, and often bans torrent websites right after a release of their own films).

Re: Facebook Opens Internet․Org to All Developers Due to Net Neutrality Concerns

#50

Post by thomasfoster96 » Mon, May 04, 2015, 11:06 AM UTC

A step in the right direction, but it seems a bit half hearted. I'm not really sure what services HTTP-only, no JavaScript and few images gets you, but it's going to be a tiny subset of what's possible for most people in countries where Internet.org is targeted. The best solution as far as I'm concerned would be to give x gigabytes of data a month away for free, regardless of the protocol or type of data being transmitted.