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What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

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Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#71

Post by refurb »

wozniacki wrote: post #64
mschuster91 wrote: post #45

> This was super distressing for a lot of people, as those belongings usually included wallet, phone, and keys. So after you are done at Central Booking, you are basically left with no possessions or money, and no way to get into your home or contact anyone. Please, someone tell me this is fucking illegal.

Please, someone tell me this is fucking illegal. I find these outbursts of genuine surprise and bewilderment amusing, in the best possible way. What I'm about to suggest is not meant to remedy or suggest alternate remedies to the workings of the criminal justice system as it currently operates. I'm merely expressing amusement at the colossal unfamiliarity of most of the generally law-abiding public (Black, White, His…

I'm confused. Why would a trial have a public defender and a high priced defense attorney? Did you mean prosecutor?

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#72

Post by eru »

iopq wrote: post #68
Quizz wrote: post #3

Yep and people are surprised when violence suddenly erupts against the police.

No, those people have guns. It's usually against the people in your community that had nothing to do with it.

Even in the places where the police don't have guns, like London.

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#73

Post by trhway »

harryh wrote: post #59
rayiner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single one of those officers should have been fired on the spot. I'm no fan of de Blasio, but he's the democratically elected mayor of New York. Turning your back to him is turning your back to the people who elected him.

Ignoring for the moment that the union certainly wouldn't allow such firings this also seems like a 1st amendment issue. What does the court have to say about expressions of speech in this context?

The 1st doesn't protect from firing when you trash your employer in public. It protects your trashing, not employment :)

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#74

Post by mschuster91 »

wozniacki wrote: post #64
mschuster91 wrote: post #45

> This was super distressing for a lot of people, as those belongings usually included wallet, phone, and keys. So after you are done at Central Booking, you are basically left with no possessions or money, and no way to get into your home or contact anyone. Please, someone tell me this is fucking illegal.

Please, someone tell me this is fucking illegal. I find these outbursts of genuine surprise and bewilderment amusing, in the best possible way. What I'm about to suggest is not meant to remedy or suggest alternate remedies to the workings of the criminal justice system as it currently operates. I'm merely expressing amusement at the colossal unfamiliarity of most of the generally law-abiding public (Black, White, His…

> I find these outbursts of genuine surprise and bewilderment amusing, in the best possible way. > What I'm about to suggest is not meant to remedy or suggest alternate remedies to the workings of the criminal justice system as it currently operates. > I'm merely expressing amusement at the colossal unfamiliarity of most of the generally law-abiding public ( Black, White, Hispanic or otherwise ) at how poorly our system works, even with the best intentions of the law makers and policy wonks. > I can't but find people who expect an uniform carriage of justice, across all wealth levels, across all demographics and in all instances of law-breaking, to be nothing short of deranged.

tbh, I'm German and while we have our own issues with police, conduct like this is next to unheard of.

I have thought of the police tactics shown in e.g. NCIS (shouting at people until they confess, tricking them into confessions, ...) as typical Hollywood exaggerations, but apparently I was blatantly wrong.

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#75

Post by JDiculous »

It's ridiculous that they're allowed to waste so much of our time, taking hours to fill out paperwork with pen and paper as if it's the 20th century. That needs to change. And police officers taking selfies with the people they arrested and boasting about it on social media should be arrested. So fucking unprofessional.

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#76

Post by vacri »

agwa wrote: post #34
icelancer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? They are allowed to express their right to free speech and expression as well, just as the protestors should be able to.

Legally, they do not have the right of free speech when in uniform. See Garcetti v. Ceballos: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6711908971660042... And as a matter of principle, they should not. When in uniform, a police officer is not a private person, who has rights, but rather a representative of the government, which does not have rights, but authority delegated to it by the people. Further reading, fro…

Neither of your links support your case.

In the first link, the case is about a memo written as part of the employee's role; a uniform is irrelevant (district attorneys don't wear uniforms, and the word 'uniform' is mentioned zero times in the document).

In the second link, the article explicitly states: "Wearing a badge doesn’t forfeit the free speech of the person". It's abundantly clear that these police turning their backs on the mayor at a funeral over a political stoush between the parties are not acting as voices of the government. No reasonable person would even remotely think that the police turning their back on the mayor is 'what the government message is'. Those police are clearly not 'speaking' in an official government capacity (and literally are not speaking at all).

I have no great love for the police, but the correct path forward is a fair view, not a knee-jerk 'fire them all on principle'. This thread is full of knee-jerk hysteria, but the irony is that so many people are calling for an end to multiple people's careers because, while not on duty, the were literally standing still while facing the incorrect direction. Ironic because it's supposedly a reaction against undue application of power, and yet the punishment for facing the wrong way is termination, regardless of whether or not that officer has abused power elsewhere.

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#77

Post by agwa »

vacri wrote: post #76
agwa wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, they do not have the right of free speech when in uniform. See Garcetti v. Ceballos: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6711908971660042... And as a matter of principle, they should not. When in uniform, a police officer is not a private person, who has rights, but rather a representative of the government, which does not have rights, but authority delegated to it by the people. Further reading, fro…

Neither of your links support your case. In the first link, the case is about a memo written as part of the employee's role; a uniform is irrelevant (district attorneys don't wear uniforms, and the word 'uniform' is mentioned zero times in the document). In the second link, the article explicitly states: "Wearing a badge doesn’t forfeit the free speech of the person" . It's abundantly clear that these police turning…

> In the first link, the case is about a memo written on duty as part of the employee's role; a uniform is irrelevant (and the word 'uniform' is mentioned zero times in the document).

The facts are not identical, but the facts are sufficiently similar that you could cite that case as precedence for arguing that the facts in question here should be treated similarly. The lawyer I linked to certainly thinks so. Are you a lawyer?

> In the second link, the article explicitly states: "Wearing a badge doesn’t forfeit the free speech of the person".

You took that out of context. "Person" here means the private person, not the cop representing himself as a cop. The paragraph goes on to say, "the speech of a person who presents himself in his official governmental capacity is no longer the individual’s free speech, but the official person’s speech. And the latter is not free."

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#78

Post by harryh »

trhway wrote: post #73
harryh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring for the moment that the union certainly wouldn't allow such firings this also seems like a 1st amendment issue. What does the court have to say about expressions of speech in this context?

The 1st doesn't protect from firing when you trash your employer in public. It protects your trashing, not employment :)

The first amendment doesn't apply to my employer as I work for a private company, so you are right there. But is that true for cops who work for the government? I'm honestly not sure.

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#79

Post by mgraczyk »

task_queue wrote: post #57
mschuster91 wrote: post #45

> This was super distressing for a lot of people, as those belongings usually included wallet, phone, and keys. So after you are done at Central Booking, you are basically left with no possessions or money, and no way to get into your home or contact anyone. Please, someone tell me this is fucking illegal.

This is standard fare for any police department ever. It took me about 4 months to get my phone back from the NYPD, which was fun. I love it when white people are shocked by their first arrest, because it (unfortunately) means something might get done. The system sucks. Now please scare other white people about it.

"I love it when white people ..."

It's unclear to me why race has anything to do with this. Are you implying that you expect non-white people to handle "their first arrest" more casually, as if it is something they are familiar with and know will happen?

If we really want things to improve, we need to stop complaining about how "white people don't see how bad it is for the rest of us." Focus on what we have in common, not what you arbitrarily perceive as what makes us different. The system is shitty for everybody. Your argument would have been just as informative and a lot more pleasant to read if it didn't begin by partitioning your readers by race.

Re: What happens after you’re arrested at a protest in New York

#80

Post by [deleted] »

harryh wrote: post #59
rayiner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single one of those officers should have been fired on the spot. I'm no fan of de Blasio, but he's the democratically elected mayor of New York. Turning your back to him is turning your back to the people who elected him.

Ignoring for the moment that the union certainly wouldn't allow such firings this also seems like a 1st amendment issue. What does the court have to say about expressions of speech in this context?

[deleted]
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