Live data from Hacker News

Talking About Money

kalzumeus.com

341–350 of 412 posts

Re: Talking About Money

#341
post #270

https://twitter.com/CHOBITCOIN/status/594238763880075264 claims MCV co-founder started the talkpay hashtag and she was racist. Notice how only Silicon Valley Americans are participating in the twitter hashtag. This hashtag will only help the shrill feminists, not the women who toil away in hardware factories in China and the outsourcing firms in India.

So what did you do today to solve those problems? Why do people in Pittsburgh count as "Silicon Valley" to you anyway?

Re: Talking About Money

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While dealing with recruiters can be a hassle their goals align much more closely with ours if we are maintaining the fallacy that only the money counts. Recruiters are typically paid a percentage of your salary so they want you to receive the highest salary possible since that is the best payout for them as well. No, this isn't true, and this misconception is explicitly why I invoked the realtor problem. If the re…

Just like why a real estate agent pushes you to sell the house at any price and not wait for our counter a slightly higher offer

That's what a realtor is. =)

Re: Talking About Money

#343
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, one might think so, but this was the CEO in question[1]. Edit, and so far as bluffing, could an employer legally ask for W2's to verify? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-m...

In the original post Patrick already touched on the Japan case, but one thing I'd add is that one of the pieces of paperwork you must hand to your new employer is your final tax slip from your previous employer showing how much tax you have paid in the current year. From there it's trivial to calculate your previous salary. There are ways around it but it seems most people go with "my base was XX.... and that's one o…

Oh crap I just realised I had the wrong parent for this. Sincerely sorry for the confusion.

Re: Talking About Money

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm flattered you responded to my comment cperciva! patio11 is unusually (yet refreshingly) open with his financial information. If you're going to blog about your intimate financial details, you should of course "have your ducks in a row".

I'm flattered you responded to my comment Don't be -- I don't think there's any correlation between the quality of a comment and whether I respond to it. ;-) If you're going to blog about your intimate financial details, you should of course "have your ducks in a row". Right, but once you've lied about something it's impossible to put that particular duck back where it belongs.

I don't disagree, but sometimes lying is necessary.

Re: Talking About Money

#345

Hmm. We just ask people how much they want to make and give them as much time as they need to respond. If it's higher than we can pay, then we say sorry we can't pay that. If it's way lower than we would expect we usually tell them that we wouldn't expect to pay less than X for their skills and experience. This has worked great so far because if someone came back with a really low number and we just took it, then a m…

On the other hand, when someone states much more than you can afford - don't you think to just pass on this candidate, because she might feel unhappy even if she accepts the offer?

Also, to follow Patrick's advice - if someone doesn't give the answer but instead asks the same question to you - "what's the budget/range for this role? ", do you answer honestly?

Re: Talking About Money

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't legally ask for proof, no. Bluff away! Well, I am a lawyer, and this is also not legal advice. To lie and accept a job offer whose salary is predicated on the lie would constitute fraud. Lying about your former compensation history is no different than lying about a prior criminal record, if the counterparty relies on the false assertion.

You can triple-dog-dare an employer to fire you "with cause" from a role where you are performing well for lying about previous salary. This is a silly concern. It's just not going to happen.

You're assuming that employers are rational. Most of them aren't.

There are a bunch of jobs with ethical requirements so lying is probably going to cause problems.

Re: Talking About Money

#347

Those rates make me go wat. I make $20/hr. :( But can we apply this to the skills we'll need for starfighters.io? It's very easy to point to money (or even companies) lost by data breaches and say "I can help you prevent this", but the money you save may be whatever they pay for breach insurance or it may be literally everything they own. Case studies and deliverable targets (+millions of dollars from SEO and stuff)…

Been there - started with $10/hr many years ago. Back then I didn't realize that all it takes to triple or quadruple my income would be as simple as asking for it - seriously. Although, it was always parallel to changing clients. So go for it, find a new client and ask 3-figure. Oh, and yes, I live in a poor country...

Re: Talking About Money

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you should always value equity at zero. Neither your landlord nor the guys at the farmers' market want your stock certificates, which are overwhelmingly likely to end up worthless (if they aren't already). Second, most companies don't pay bonuses. Those that do usually have a bonus pool that depends in some way on the company's success in the marketplace, and they can almost always abolish bonuses at ma…

Serious question: if you value equity at 0, then ( ceteris paribus ) given a choice between (1) an offer at $150,000 and 50 basis points and (2) an offer at $150,100 and 0 basis points, you should choose option (2). Given that: why should any employer offer equity?

You're correct. I think the issue is that most employees overvalue the equity, and undervalue the volatility. People think "I have 10,000 shares, and they could be worth 100 each someday - that's a million dollars!" rather than "I have 0.1% of a company that's currently worth $100 million based on the recent funding round. That's worth $100,000 in today's dollars if I stick around for 4 years, but probably will be either a lot more or less by the time that comes around."

But the to larger point above - what I meant in Glassdoor is they only capture base salaries. Not that they're not inherently invaluable. Otherwise you'd see a lot more outsize #s for banks.

Re: Talking About Money

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: if you value equity at 0, then ( ceteris paribus ) given a choice between (1) an offer at $150,000 and 50 basis points and (2) an offer at $150,100 and 0 basis points, you should choose option (2). Given that: why should any employer offer equity?

I don't know about should , but an employer would offer equity because employees will often overvalue it. IMO, equity is a great benefit. You might not get the most comprehensive benefits package, or you might work more hours at early stage company. Instead, you get equity.

In addition to relative value, equity has other benefits. It increases the "One team" spirit, where everyone rises and falls together. It also puts in a sense of fairness. If the firm thrives, it's not just the CEO and VCs who get rich.

There are downsides (lack of control of share price, and some freeloading) but for startups it's a great tool. The effectiveness shrinks a bit for large firms.

Re: Talking About Money

#350
Posting your company salaries does a few things:

1) It promotes mediocrity. 2) Creates a political cesspool. 3) Ties the hands of hiring team.

1 - Excellent people want to go places where they can make more. When excellent people learn about public salary postings the first thing they will worry about is the perception of other employees. I suspect they will just avoid conflict and work somewhere else. Really think about the current open salary systems: state governments, federal systems (cia, fbi..), school teachers, college systems, military..

2 - Will you help the "next" person above your salary grade? Why? Your goal is to be higher than he/she - so this promotes extremely bad behavior. This is how yahoo is setup. People will be trained to create little moats to protect power, inflate budgets, hide data, hurt other employees.

3 - Really want that new hire? Well, now you have no negotiation power. If you pay this employee salary X. Anyone who gets less than X (Call this Y) will be pushed down in the employee chain. So now, instead you want to minimize Y. Sublimity, you will hire less and less capable people to avoid conflict with the current team.

Post reply on HN