Talking About Money • Hacker News Board

Re: Talking About Money

#91

Post by lsaferite » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #56

ashark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really gotten over the shock of discovering that anyone asks this, let alone that it's common (especially for larger companies). Add it to the list of things in business that seem to me to be inappropriate/rude/immoral, I suppose.

Imbalance of power fuelled by a recession = more inappropriate/rude/immoral behaviour to take advantage of the situation. They know they can say "tell us your previous salary, or else". What's worse is that they will ask your references to confirm, and they'll likely happily tell them. If you lied, it won't go down well. As if there wasn't enough crap to fight against in your career.. ugh. EDIT: I forgot about employ…

Well, there you go. "I'm under an NDA that prevents me from disclosing my salary."

Re: Talking About Money

#92

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

bcg1 wrote: post #65

patio11 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I enjoyed running the software business more than I enjoyed running the consultancy. Partly that is for difficult-to-explain personal reasons (I feel the sense of satisfaction with operating a software company that some people feel when painting things). Partly it is because of reasons which are endemic to consultancies, even successful consultancies. Feel free to ask if you're curious. I also have a quirky r…

Not snark... serious question... its not clear to me what sort of services anyone could offer for 30k per week... what sort of thing commands that kind of price tag?

I can't give any details, but the largest bill I've seen was $1M for ~2 person-weeks worth of work; it was clearly demonstrated ahead of time that it would save the customer about 10x that, and the customer had tried twice already to do it in-house and failed (it was way outside their core expertise).

Re: Talking About Money

#93

Post by keeran » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

The problem I have with this #talkpay thing is that it assumes everyone I connect with is in our lucrative echo chamber. I'd feel like a asshole talking about my income as a contract developer knowing I have followers who are really struggling to find work / decent pay outside of technology.

Conferences, tech meetups etc I'm usually the first to be championing developer solidarity and pushing the message that we can and should all be demanding more money, everywhere else I try and keep it low profile to not rub peoples noses in it.

Re: Talking About Money

#94

Post by walshemj » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

marktangotango wrote: post #9

>> Most important takeaway about salary negotiation, by the way: disclosing a previous salary is almost always against your interests because it pegs your new salary to that plus 5% rather than your value to the new firm minus a discount, which is a brutal mistake I had a phone screen with an HR drone once (Cerner Inc. to be exact \waves) part way thru she asked me my current salary. I declined to provide that inform…

I a have had similar experience for a well known uk agency - I effectively fired them and of course If I should ever need to interview any of their candidates the cv's are going in the bin unread

Re: Talking About Money

#95

Post by fecak » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #63

brentshields wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding bluffing: I've seen it happen where the company has asked for a pay stub as part of the final paperwork to confirm that the stated current salary was legit. So yeah that could be a downside to bluffing if you want the job.

I've never heard of such a thing but it undoubtedly happens. Your pay stub is really just showing the floor though. For many positions, there are fairly regular bonuses, variable comp, etc. So, in reality, there's usually some wiggle room in providing current salary info while still being essentially truthful.

I've been recruiting engineers for almost 20 years, and I have probably had a dozen cases where a client asked for a pay stub around the time an offer is presented. It's obviously rare, and most of the time it was for high-ticket talent that seemed to be paid noticeably above market rate.

Re: Talking About Money

#96

Post by hkmurakami » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

One thing I have noticed is that while "wage information" (including equity grants) are taboo and "net worth" is also taboo, "wealth management strategies" (and at times philosophies) are not nearly as taboo amongst the wealthier folks, perhaps because the conversation revolves around relative, rather than absolute, numbers.

Re: Talking About Money

#97

Post by nemo44x » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

throwaway90000 wrote: post #48

> (Most important takeaway about salary negotiation, by the way: disclosing a previous salary is almost always against your interests because it pegs your new salary to that plus 5% rather than your value to the new firm minus a discount, which is a brutal mistake, particularly in the years of your career where natural growth in capabilities/experience/the market/etc causes you to bring vastly more to the table with…

Exactly right. Who would ever tell a prospective employer what they are really making? I'd agree you should tell them a number close to what you expect to make if you switch companies. You'll possibly get an offer that exceeds you original goals. It's important to go into these things prepared and well researched.

Re: Talking About Money

#98

Post by AceJohnny2 » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #34

marktangotango wrote: post #9

>> Most important takeaway about salary negotiation, by the way: disclosing a previous salary is almost always against your interests because it pegs your new salary to that plus 5% rather than your value to the new firm minus a discount, which is a brutal mistake I had a phone screen with an HR drone once (Cerner Inc. to be exact \waves) part way thru she asked me my current salary. I declined to provide that inform…

Crazy. I'd definitely send a quick note to someone higher up if you can get a hold of him/her. I know, not worth the time, a hassle etc. But a typical CEO worth his salt will crush something silly like that in no-time, if you really want to hire good people this is the type of person you want to fire. I mean, hell, asking the question is one thing. I can live with that. But turning that into some kind of litmus test…

> if you really want to hire good people

Well now there's the rub innit?

I get the impression that a lot of companies out there either don't have that mentality (thinking cheap is enough) or don't know how to actually do good hiring.

The good thing about this kind of reaction is that it helps you filter out that kind of company you wouldn't want to work for.

Re: Talking About Money

#99

Post by skizm » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

If people knew everyone's salaries there would always be discontent. There will be people making less thinking that are better/more experience/worth more than person B making $X more than them.

Re: Talking About Money

#100

Post by chadgeidel » Fri, May 01, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

marktangotango wrote: post #9

>> Most important takeaway about salary negotiation, by the way: disclosing a previous salary is almost always against your interests because it pegs your new salary to that plus 5% rather than your value to the new firm minus a discount, which is a brutal mistake I had a phone screen with an HR drone once (Cerner Inc. to be exact \waves) part way thru she asked me my current salary. I declined to provide that inform…

I had a recruiter tell me I was legally obligated to tell him my current salary. I said no thanks, not interested and he proceeded to attempt to keep me on the phone for another 10 minutes (after which I hung up).

Needless to say, I don't waste my time any longer when a recruiter asks. I just say "here's what I expect".