Tesla vs Edison, Round 2.
Interesting twist that this time around, Tesla is pushing for DC, while Edison is behind AC.
Tesla Energy
541–550 of 590 posts
Re: Tesla Energy
#542Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how it's immediately beneficial for just about everyone. I currently have a flat rate for kWh and no solar panel... and moving soon. It's not worth the $. In 6 months I'll be renting for a year, still not beneficial. Perhaps in a couple years I can purchase solar, a battery, and an energy system that can automate some demand shedding but we're talking about 1%ers here. In fact, I'd say it's only immediate…
As someone who rents an apartment with no garage and has a traditional gas-powered car, I can echo your sentiment and claim that Tesla has had zero impact on my life and that this announcement doesn't change that. I sincerely hope that Tesla's many innovative business efforts improve society in some major way, but right now they're still just a high-end automative company that's exploring the renewable energy space.…
Tesla may not have the direct impact to you that the Model S driver or Powerwall customer will have, but there's another element to the announcement: Industrial-scale storage for energy companies.
If that works, if they get update on that, then it will have a much larger impact at once that homeowner uptake will. Being able to take a natural gas plant offline entirely is a phenomenal win.
There's benefits for you as well. They just won't be as directly felt being that they're a few degrees removed. But I'd argue that those wins at the large-scale will have an enormous impact.
Re: Tesla Energy
#543You can buy a used Mitsubishi i-MIEV (early electric car with very short range) for less than $8,000.
So, do that. Then strap one of these Tesla home batteries on it.
Bam!
(NB some experience with heavy-duty DC electricity required.)
Re: Tesla Energy
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
Higher voltage means lower current and thus lower voltage loss, and lower percentage losses for the same voltage loss, so you don’t need lots of copper.
Yes, but you're throwing it into an inverter, and it's not like you're carrying it too far. High voltages also present problems in itself (isolation, etc) Now, on a second thought, maybe it's more efficient to do 400VDC to 120VAC/240VAC (don't know the exact values)
DC-DC buck converters may be a little simpler and more efficient than boost converters, I don't really know.
Re: Tesla Energy
#545Earlier quoted context omitted.
While you are correct, you can at least snuff out a gasoline fire. Lithium fires do not require oxygen, so your typical Class ABC fire extinguishers won't actually work on it. You need a class D (dry powder) extinguisher, which is very rare and expensive.
> Lithium fires do not require oxygen I thought fire is by definition a combustion reaction, meaning some kind of material reacting with oxygen. What's fire, then? (I feel like a little kid, having to ask that...)
It's possible for something to burn hot enough to split water molecules apart. I don't know if lithium metal qualifies, but that could be what the MSDS is referring to.
Re: Tesla Energy
#546Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gas fumes are very flammable, but the gasoline itself will flow down and out of my garage, and the fire would be very easy to contain with a simple garden hose. A gas can also will not light on fire just because it gets hit with a car. It would take malicious use of a gas can -- splashing it on a wall and then lighting it on fire -- to match the default configuration of a Powerwall.
edit: my karma http://i.imgur.com/rjNrXTc.gifv
Moderation is pretty weird in this thread. I got voted down for pointing out that the US power grid is likely to experience problems when entire residential neighborhoods full of Tesla owners try to charge their Model S at once.
I don't think many people around here understand (a) just how efficient gasoline really is at storing energy, and (b) just how much energy is used by a typical passenger car.
Re: Tesla Energy
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about stuck to the side of your house? From further down the comments, this is a rebranding of a battery already offered to SolarCity customers. http://www.solarcity.com/residential/backup-power-supply The image on SolarCity has been updated to show Tesla branding.
That was my thought took until I remembered people already steal copper wiring whether or not it's carrying load. That would be a tempting target for theft. I think I'd stick it in my garage instead, but that's just me being paranoid.
Good point, hopefully the controller is DRM'ed to keep it from being used by a thief.
Re: Tesla Energy
#548Earlier quoted context omitted.
It comes standard with a 10 year warranty, with an optional 10 year extension. If they don't have different numbers than you, I don't see why they would even attempt that.
Warrantied to what, though. That you can still get 20% capacity levels in year 10, or that it will still turn on? This might be considered "normal wear and tear." 3000 deep cycles is really pushing what the industry knows to be state of the art. Maybe they are just taking the economic chance that most people won't be deeply cycling these batteries, and planning to do replacements for those who actually put it through…
> Warrantied to what, though.
That's a good question, and it makes a big difference.
> That you can still get 20% capacity levels in year 10, or that it will still turn on? This might be considered "normal wear and tear."
Given that you can optionally warranty it for an additional 10 years, I doubt it's nearly that bad. If people are confused as to how they how they hope achieve 10 years reliability, and they are willing to warranty 20 years, they must have something up their sleeves.
> 3000 deep cycles is really pushing what the industry knows to be state of the art
I suspect that the powerwall's true capacity is higher than it's rating, and it uses that reserve so it's not doing deep cycles, similar to another commenter's assertion to how the Prius gets it's 7+ year rating,
> Maybe they are just taking the economic chance that most people won't be deeply cycling these batteries, and planning to do replacements for those who actually put it through its paces.
I think a combination of most users not fully cycling every day, extra reserve capacity to keep it from deep cycling, and some subset of people not using failing warranty conditions may all contribute.
Re: Tesla Energy
#549What I'd love to see is a ROI calculator that: * uses my zip code to figure out what my non-peak costs might be. * allows me to optionally calculate solar energy capture (so I can see what impact having solar would be, given the average sunny days in my area) * takes into account the wear and tear average cold weather would have on the lifetime of the batter and the payback period. For example, I live in Michigan, an…
I also live in Michigan, and can tell you it will be a money loser for one major reason: the full cost of the system you install will be added to your local property tax valuation, as the state tax exemption on renewable energy equipment was nullified several years ago and never replaced. In my case I had $500 in taxes added to my annual bill, which outpaces the value of the energy I produce and creates an infinite p…
Does that mean when you sell your house, you will recoup the cost of the system?
If that's the case, the system itself wouldn't be a non-refundable investment, and calculating ROI on it would be as silly as calculating ROI on your house.
Re: Tesla Energy
#550This is a three-pronged stroke of genius: 1) Immediate benefits to just about anyone. If you have your own solar panels, you need this (or something like it). Even if you don't, you can benefit by drawing more power during cheaper off-peak times. 2) If lots of people get in on this, we'll have the storage capacity we need on the grid to be more dependent on renewable energy. Lack of storage capacity is one of the big…
1) You don't need this if you have solar. Most states and utilities have pretty favorable subsidies for "selling back" energy to the grid. The utility is credit the feeding back to the grid at 100%. This device will introduce efficiency losses and it is expensive. Unless you have extreme peak v. non-peak fees, I doubt this will save you money. Even at 20 cent difference, 7kW hours is a 1.40 a day. But that assumes th…
Smoothing out peak/non-peak demand has an enormous economic and ecological benefit. Power plants don't turn on a dime. We often overproduce to handle the peaks.