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Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

economist.com

201–210 of 252 posts

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#201
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Where do we draw the line? Always a tough question :) >> Say you buy a drug that comes from a cartel that uses kidnapping, rape, and murder to hold their power. It is possible for the drug to have been produced safely, but it wasn't in this case and you are feeding the market. There are indeed lots of moral questions here. As someone who tends to buy things that are free-range, organic, fair trade etc. I fully agr…

>The argument put forward above is that stopping the war on drugs just because we can't win is equivalent to stopping the 'war' on (for example) burglary. I do agree that stopping the war on X differs greatly when X is something that deserves stopping in and of itself compared to when X is not inherently harmful, but closely tied to things that are (though I do think that different people will classify certain action…

>> some people will say some drugs are so bad that they deserve to be stopped in and of themselves

They will indeed. And to them I say "good luck with that!"

I agree with the sentiment there, nobody should be encouraging the use of heroin, for example. But we've tried banning it and it hasn't actually helped all that much. I think it's time to admit that's failed and investigate what we can do, with a close eye on the evidential and scientific basis of our actions, to reduce harm as much as possible.

Stamping our feet and threatening people hasn't made them stop. Lets find the best way we can to keep more people from getting there, to keep the harms to them as minimal as possible, and to make society better for the rest of us while we're at it.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#202
post #200
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Upon consuming this drug, you are not allowed to work for x years, drive, or be treated for health", Why the hell would you be so nasty about it? This is pure hysteria. Most drugs do not last all that long, are less harmful and addictive than alcohol and there is no reason at all to try to exclude them from work, care or driving (beyond the time the drug is in effect, obviously). We don't turn people away from he…

I was just following OP's opinion that consumers shouldn't be treated for health. If you want my own opinion, health is cheap for everyone in my home country, drugged or not, and I don't see why it's different in US/AU. Thanks for the downvote Nursie.

Oh right, sorry!

I very much agree with you about the advertising too!

--edit-- I didn't actually downvote you I don't think...

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please define "equal marriage". Do you support the marriage between any two individuals? So a brother could marry their sister? Or a mother could marry their daughter? Do you support marriage involving polygamous relationships? Can three or four people can be married?

Replying to your other comment here because it was too deep to respond. > Remember just a few years ago there were no major organizations or groups of people advocating for... same-sex marriage. Is 1991 a "few years ago"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Hawaii

So there was a court case in 1991 but average joe would not have known about it or cared about it. Compare that to the daily news headlines and social media discussion that exists today.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the campaigns against alcohol have been so unsuccessful. It is amazing that so many people have no issue with losing control mentally under the influence of alcohol and those same people think it is scary that I would like to try LSD.

I don't understand why the campaigns against alcohol have been so unsuccessful. Alcohol is very easy to manufacture in secret.

And, by the way, can easily yield the poisonous methanol variation accidentally. This wasn't uncommon during prohibition, and many people were harmed, blinded, or killed, by drinking it.

This is a very close parallel to what we see in the (failed) War on (some) Drugs, where many people are harmed by overdoses because the products wind up tainted, or aren't produced to any uniform potency.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#205
post #52
post #31

It's not often that I have the opportunity to feel proud of the legislators in my home country, but Portugal has been on the leading edge of drug prevention and rehabilitation since we moved from a "war on drugs" to a program of health risk prevention and removed the weight of criminal charges and proceedings from the equation. Some interesting articles below: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/03/portugal-drug-de…

This is my fear. The "War on Drug" really is a health issue, but most people I know that are against the war basically want to smoke more and more pot and/or Libertarians and the reply to stop the war is not and we can help more people.

but most people I know that are against the war basically want to smoke more and more pot and/or Libertarians

Downvote because of the implication that an idea expounded by libertarians is, ipso facto, a bad idea. Our political discourse needs minds considerably more open than that.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#206
post #170
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If it's war, it must be serious and we should fund it seriously." This is America. Have you seen the wars we fight? Millions dead throughout the word. Millions in jail being tortured. I don't know what definition of war you have, but that is war. "I think any association with race is coincidental." If it's not about race, please explain the arrest and incarceration rates for different races given that consumption is…

It's about class. Look at drug incarceration in Africa, see who gets jailed. The same in any country. Who gets jailed for drugs offences? The poor blacks, Hispanics, whites, etc. Look who gets locked up for drugs offences in Russia. The poor. It's not race. Race is a byproduct.

It might be a byproduct outside the US, but it certainly isn't one inside the US, which is the point of my comment.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal alcohol dosage doesn't lead to massive loss of control

Alcohol is drug like any other. I guess everybody seen some people get aggressive even on moderate alcohol high. Tobacco is probably the worst drug ever consumed by man, considering amount of death and suffering it causes... None of drugs are a blessing to mankind, but to consider A OK and even promote it, and destroy people's lives and promote drug cartels for B, where many times B is not more harmful then A is... s…

> Tobacco is probably the worst drug ever consumed by man, considering amount of death and suffering it causes...

That is only because tobacco is much more widespread than meth, crack, and opium. The dangers of tobacco get inflated almost as much the dangers of other drugs get deflated.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially the stereotype of legalization activists, but it's not really true. I don't smoke pot, but have long been an advocate of legalization. It's so strange to me when people assume I do smoke because of this advocacy... I'm also a straight supporter of equal marriage, and a male supporter of pro-choice policies, &c., &c. People who want to use drugs are already using drugs. Marijuana legalization would…

Please define "equal marriage". Do you support the marriage between any two individuals? So a brother could marry their sister? Or a mother could marry their daughter? Do you support marriage involving polygamous relationships? Can three or four people can be married?

[deleted]

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#209
post #146

The drug war is a civil war. It divides and breaks up society for horrific purposes. In the US, it's always been racism, a way for the government to put down people of races they could no longer legally murder or enslave. Some 'friendly casualties' in such a war will always be overlooked by any government. It's certainly no coincidence that the ramping up of the drug war by Nixon came only a few years after the passi…

It is definitely not a tool to continue a race war, racial program, etc, etc. It is a tool of politicians much like the issues with pornography. It relies on fear, uncertainty, and doubt, with a big dose of apathy thrown in. The last is because the majority really doesn't care what happens to users because they do not themselves use these drugs. Images on TV, internet, and newspaper, reinforce the image of those who…

It's not a tool to continue the race war, it's the main tool to continue the race war. The rest of your points are quite valid but are not an argument against the numbers that prove that race is not only a major factor, it's the driving factor behind the war. Otherwise, you'd have to explain the racial disparity in deaths, arrests, incarceration, and poverty directly related to drugs.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the campaigns against alcohol have been so unsuccessful. It is amazing that so many people have no issue with losing control mentally under the influence of alcohol and those same people think it is scary that I would like to try LSD.

Normal alcohol dosage doesn't lead to massive loss of control

Neither does LSD...?
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