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Tesla Energy

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Re: Tesla Energy

#241

Post by [deleted] »

hackerboos wrote: post #176
colinsidoti wrote: post #51

One thing that might go overlooked: Load shifting could, in theory, lower electric bills such that there's ROI without solar panels. --- Edit for why: On-demand power is expensive. "Spinning up" additional power during the day is more expensive than having certain types of power generation running all the time. In theory, pumping power into a battery at night during non-peak hours will cost less than consuming direct…

Economy 7 power is significantly cheaper in the UK than peak power. Charging overnight in the E7 period could save money long term depending on the lifetime of the battery.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Energy

#242

Post by aidos »

IanCal wrote: post #204
hackerboos wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economy 7 power is significantly cheaper in the UK than peak power. Charging overnight in the E7 period could save money long term depending on the lifetime of the battery.

I did a quick bit of calculation on this. Assuming you use 10KWh per day and a perfect battery: Economy 7 KWh cost : 8.4p (Best deal I saw was 9.4 for me, but this was a figure on MSE) Standard tariff KWh cost : 14.5p (Best deal I saw was ~12 for me, but this was a figure on MSE) That'd be a £306/year cost on economy 7 and £530 on a standard, taking some more extreme figures. A $3500 (~£2300) battery would then have…

Oh interesting, I hadn't considered the aspect of charging overnight while it's cheaper. Of course, the moment it starts to get popular the energy companies will be eating that particular cake too, I'm sure. Sounds like right now there's not a huge margin anyway.

I guess the energy companies have a financial incentive to run a more consistent supply if it could reduce the peak load.

Just reminded me of a brilliant BBC documentary from a while back - The Secret Life of the National Grid. I think you probably have to piece it together from clips on youtube these days.

Re: Tesla Energy

#243

Post by [deleted] »

tfinniga wrote: post #210
colinsidoti wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to wrap your head around all the challenges in energy. If you're REALLY good at it you can find some incredible arbitrage opportunities...see Enron. Consider the power output characteristics of some common energy sources: Gas, Nuclear, Hydro, Wind, Solar Our "sustainable" sources of power - hydro, wind, and solar - are also the ones with the most irregular and unpredictable power output. This creates a prob…

was it a gravity battery?

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Energy

#244

Post by jrockway »

jacobolus wrote: post #211
roel_v wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and can only provide 2kW output." only 2kW? 2kW is enough to power any residential, single-family house for 95-98% of the time; you only need (a little bit) more than that at very short (few minutes) peak intervals - when heating up an oven, or some cycles of doing laundry. A second unit would provide that headroom, and otherwise (when the extra $5k for a second unit is prohibitive) you could still draw from the gri…

I use incandescent lights. They produce a much more pleasant spectrum than “white” CFLs or LEDs.

There are LED bulbs with very high CRI scores now. Before those existed it did indeed make sense not to switch to CFL or LED. (Though halogen/xenon make more sense than pure incandescent.)

Re: Tesla Energy

#245

Post by TorKlingberg »

diminoten wrote: post #160
kondro wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't. Tesla have a much shorter track record than someone like Iron Edison. Also… if you read my comment, you'll see the batteries are cheaper than Tesla's… and if you look online, you can see they come in various configurations… rather than predefined 10kWh bricks with 2kW output.

You're all over this thread, shitting on Tesla. Why? No, I don't want to hear what you're already thinking about typing. I want you to ask yourself why. I don't actually care (you're some stranger, we'll probably never talk again) -- but you should.

That attack was really uncalled for. I'm a Tesla fan, but it gets tiring how only enthusiastic comments are allowed in certain threads on HN.

Re: Tesla Energy

#246

Post by mtbcoder »

danhak wrote: post #175
seanp2k2 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the power in the US comes from coal. Solar is 0.4%: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3 What do you do with the batteries and the toxic materials inside when you're done with them (and how long do they last)? What do you do with all the toxic materials produced during mining, refining, and production of batteries and materials? How do you deal with these same issues as they affect solar panels, w…

> Most of the power in the US comes from coal No, that's not true. Most power comes from sources other than coal. Yes, coal is the largest single source but it is < 50% and decreasing every year.

Decreasing perhaps, but it's being offset by natural gas, which is yet another hydrocarbon and comes with its own slew of hazards and problems.

Re: Tesla Energy

#247

Post by agumonkey »

gabeio wrote: post #22
agumonkey wrote: post #16

2 billion battery packs, and how many solar panels to feed them ? Did I miss the number ?

The solar panel count was not mentioned. Though he did show the blue square and the red dot for the USA.

Right, that one pixel was 2B powerpack. Solar Panels are quite larger than powerpacks, but that still looks like a large number to me.

Re: Tesla Energy

#248

Post by Shivetya »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #161
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say that, but from what I've heard there is plenty of lithium in the world to increase use 20% every year for 30 years before we need to get more creative in how we mine it. That's a huge total increase and means that electric cars totally are scalable. Do you have information supporting the idea that electric cars aren't scalable? My understanding is that they definitely are scalable.

Charging is where the scaling problems come in. If everybody in your neighborhood plugs in their Tesla at their home at night and/or at their office during the day, it will likely cause brownouts and blackouts in areas with grid service that's already marginal for current demand. Hence Musks's interest in load-shifting technology.

it isn't so much how many people charging, its the ability of people to charge where they live and the lack of ability to truly quick charge the battery.

As in, damn the kids left the car unplugged and I have to work. even thirty minutes at a super charger is not a good solution.

So it comes down to a compromise, a good range extender technology and batteries for the majority of driving. That until truly faster charging can be achieved with house hold wiring.

Re: Tesla Energy

#250

Post by tokenadult »

spiritplumber wrote: post #79

Funny that something called Tesla Energy brings back direct current to the home. I wonder how many people will catch that.

Less funny when you consider that the Tesla press release submitted here for discussion says, "The Powerwall consists of Tesla’s lithium-ion battery pack, liquid thermal control system and software that receives dispatch commands from a solar inverter." The inverter, of course, converts battery DC current to household AC current so that people can continue to enjoy AC power in their homes.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/automotive/dc-a...

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