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Tesla Energy

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Re: Tesla Energy

#201

Post by eru »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #110
kmod wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you say is true, then with better economies of scale and longer investment horizons, utilities would quickly erase any peak-vs-non-peak arbitrage opportunities.

> utilities would quickly erase any peak-vs-non-peak arbitrage opportunities. Probably right around the same time they're no longer necessary, as the cost of distribute solar continues to plummet. Its actually truly amazing how quickly the price continues to drop for panels each year.

Depends on country. I doubt you could ever run, say, Germany or Britain on locally produced solar power.

Re: Tesla Energy

#202

Post by eru »

GigabyteCoin wrote: post #165
DigitalSea wrote: post #158

I hope they have taken the safety technology from their Tesla vehicles and put it into their Tesla Energy batteries, because the thought of a 10Kwh lithium-ion battery exploding in my garage does not sound like the kind of mess I would want to be cleaning up. I couldn't see it mentioned anywhere, but presumably these batteries will be available in Australia for the same price? We always get charged more. If I can get…

They certainly won't be $3,500 AUD. 3,500.00 USD = 4,447.86 AUD according to xe.com right now... That, and the factory is in the USA. I would assume shipping something that large and heavy would add to the cost in Australia.

> That, and the factory is in the USA. I would assume shipping something that large and heavy would add to the cost in Australia.

Put it on a boat. Shouldn't cost more than shipping inside the US.

Re: Tesla Energy

#203

Post by eru »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #180
Johnythree wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key to successful Solar Living is an understanding of energy efficiency. Suggesting running an electric oven on solar is crazy talk.

So if your main priority is carbon what do you do, use a wood oven?

Use the heat directly, like in a concave mirror?

Re: Tesla Energy

#204

Post by IanCal »

hackerboos wrote: post #176
colinsidoti wrote: post #51

One thing that might go overlooked: Load shifting could, in theory, lower electric bills such that there's ROI without solar panels. --- Edit for why: On-demand power is expensive. "Spinning up" additional power during the day is more expensive than having certain types of power generation running all the time. In theory, pumping power into a battery at night during non-peak hours will cost less than consuming direct…

Economy 7 power is significantly cheaper in the UK than peak power. Charging overnight in the E7 period could save money long term depending on the lifetime of the battery.

I did a quick bit of calculation on this. Assuming you use 10KWh per day and a perfect battery:

Economy 7 KWh cost : 8.4p (Best deal I saw was 9.4 for me, but this was a figure on MSE)

Standard tariff KWh cost : 14.5p (Best deal I saw was ~12 for me, but this was a figure on MSE)

That'd be a £306/year cost on economy 7 and £530 on a standard, taking some more extreme figures.

A $3500 (~£2300) battery would then have a payoff time of about 10 years.

Using the other figures (9.4 and 12) gives a £95/year saving or a ~25 year payoff.

That's also assuming the batter is perfect, no extra costs in installation and you use exactly 10KWh per day. Economy 7 tariffs are about 22p/unit during the day so any overrun would quickly eat into savings.

I do think this is all very interesting, but with current offers in the UK it doesn't look too beneficial. However, if someone were to offer cheaper rates on a more granular level (rather than always midnight-7am) then this could work out better. Perhaps an energy company owned battery would be a good idea, they offer a flat rate back to you knowing they can smooth things out.

Re: Tesla Energy

#205

Post by ody42 »

kondro wrote: post #135
frik wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if one has already dozens of photovoltaic solar panels, and just need a good energy storage solution that lasts many years? I trust Tesla more than some others companies that they can deliver it.

You shouldn't. Tesla have a much shorter track record than someone like Iron Edison. Also… if you read my comment, you'll see the batteries are cheaper than Tesla's… and if you look online, you can see they come in various configurations… rather than predefined 10kWh bricks with 2kW output.

History repeats itself :) Prepare for the 2nd round of Edison vs. Tesla!

Re: Tesla Energy

#206

Post by GigabyteCoin »

eru wrote: post #202
GigabyteCoin wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly won't be $3,500 AUD. 3,500.00 USD = 4,447.86 AUD according to xe.com right now... That, and the factory is in the USA. I would assume shipping something that large and heavy would add to the cost in Australia.

> That, and the factory is in the USA. I would assume shipping something that large and heavy would add to the cost in Australia. Put it on a boat. Shouldn't cost more than shipping inside the US.

You still need to ship it inside the US to the boat dock, and then pay to put it on a boat, and then pay to ship it from the australian dock to the homeowner.

Re: Tesla Energy

#207

Post by knivets »

It would be cool if Tesla could also come up with something to improve batteries used in portable devices, so we can use phones or laptops more than 1-2 days without recharging.

Re: Tesla Energy

#208

Post by amass »

colinsidoti wrote: post #51

One thing that might go overlooked: Load shifting could, in theory, lower electric bills such that there's ROI without solar panels. --- Edit for why: On-demand power is expensive. "Spinning up" additional power during the day is more expensive than having certain types of power generation running all the time. In theory, pumping power into a battery at night during non-peak hours will cost less than consuming direct…

Doesn't this ignore completely the efficiency of the batteries? These batteries aren't ideal, you won't get out 100% of the energy that is put in. I don't know the efficiency rating, and I haven't done the math, but I suspect that the losses will cut into the savings significantly.

Re: Tesla Energy

#209

Post by freshyill »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #138

Nice, that came in lower than I was expecting. I was thinking $5K for the 7kWh unit. Of course that is the "installers" price so who knows what those folks will consider the 'retail' price. My wife still has her solar installer certification so we could presumably get one that way. It also makes for a really interesting opportunity for grid tied solar inverters. Now you want the inverter to power the house first, the…

How about stuck to the side of your house?

From further down the comments, this is a rebranding of a battery already offered to SolarCity customers.

http://www.solarcity.com/residential/backup-power-supply

The image on SolarCity has been updated to show Tesla branding.

Re: Tesla Energy

#210

Post by tfinniga »

colinsidoti wrote: post #141
kmod wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you say is true, then with better economies of scale and longer investment horizons, utilities would quickly erase any peak-vs-non-peak arbitrage opportunities.

It's hard to wrap your head around all the challenges in energy. If you're REALLY good at it you can find some incredible arbitrage opportunities...see Enron. Consider the power output characteristics of some common energy sources: Gas, Nuclear, Hydro, Wind, Solar Our "sustainable" sources of power - hydro, wind, and solar - are also the ones with the most irregular and unpredictable power output. This creates a prob…

was it a gravity battery?
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