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Tesla Energy

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Re: Tesla Energy

#91

Post by kmod »

colinsidoti wrote: post #51

One thing that might go overlooked: Load shifting could, in theory, lower electric bills such that there's ROI without solar panels. --- Edit for why: On-demand power is expensive. "Spinning up" additional power during the day is more expensive than having certain types of power generation running all the time. In theory, pumping power into a battery at night during non-peak hours will cost less than consuming direct…

If what you say is true, then with better economies of scale and longer investment horizons, utilities would quickly erase any peak-vs-non-peak arbitrage opportunities.

Re: Tesla Energy

#92

Post by kondro »

marze wrote: post #66

This is much more groundbreaking than it may appear. The innovation is entirely in the price. At $3500, you can put in two and be entirely off grid. Solar panels are cheap enough you only need batteries to last one night, as you can size the array to operate your loads even on cloudy days.

2 is not enough. 4kW seems to be the maximum potential drain from the battery. That wouldn't power an oven… let alone anything else at the same time.

4kW inverters seem to be around the $1000 mark… but they don't seem to increase linearly (10kW inverter $4000 for example).

Of course you could go totally off-grid, but the cost isn't going to be just $7k… it's likely to be at least $15-20k by the time you get everything you need and installed. At that price, you could've bought a larger capacity deep-cycle storage solution already readily available on the market with batteries that will last 20+ years.

Re: Tesla Energy

#93

Post by toomuchtodo »

fowkswe wrote: post #52
iandanforth wrote: post #39

I might spend $480 on electricity per year. I can't see this thing having an ROI within its lifespan. I also don't have solar panels, and have a very reliable power grid. Any reason I should consider buying one?

I know people who spend $480 per month.

Electric bills in Hawaii can top $1000/month.

Re: Tesla Energy

#94

Post by toomuchtodo »

adventured wrote: post #59
JacobAldridge wrote: post #12

Proof, if anyone still needs it, that Tesla is a battery company that builds cars, not a car company that builds batteries.

How big is their battery business compared to their car business?

Very shortly, its going to be as big as the entire world's lithium cell consumption currently.

Re: Tesla Energy

#95

Post by epistasis »

kmod wrote: post #91
colinsidoti wrote: post #51

One thing that might go overlooked: Load shifting could, in theory, lower electric bills such that there's ROI without solar panels. --- Edit for why: On-demand power is expensive. "Spinning up" additional power during the day is more expensive than having certain types of power generation running all the time. In theory, pumping power into a battery at night during non-peak hours will cost less than consuming direct…

If what you say is true, then with better economies of scale and longer investment horizons, utilities would quickly erase any peak-vs-non-peak arbitrage opportunities.

Different entities have different risk profiles, and utilities are extremely conservative. It will probably be profitable to load shift for several years before utilities start to do it on their own. And even then, it may take quite some time before there's enough battery capacity for all the fluctuations to even out.

Re: Tesla Energy

#96

Post by marze »

kondro wrote: post #92
marze wrote: post #66

This is much more groundbreaking than it may appear. The innovation is entirely in the price. At $3500, you can put in two and be entirely off grid. Solar panels are cheap enough you only need batteries to last one night, as you can size the array to operate your loads even on cloudy days.

2 is not enough. 4kW seems to be the maximum potential drain from the battery. That wouldn't power an oven… let alone anything else at the same time. 4kW inverters seem to be around the $1000 mark… but they don't seem to increase linearly (10kW inverter $4000 for example). Of course you could go totally off-grid, but the cost isn't going to be just $7k… it's likely to be at least $15-20k by the time you get everythin…

Obviously there is a lot more than just the batteries. In solar systems, $7k is not a big amount compared to all the other expenses.

I'm assuming you'd minimize your loads, it is silly to size your solar system for a business-as-usual set of loads.

Re: Tesla Energy

#97

Post by toomuchtodo »

kondro wrote: post #92
marze wrote: post #66

This is much more groundbreaking than it may appear. The innovation is entirely in the price. At $3500, you can put in two and be entirely off grid. Solar panels are cheap enough you only need batteries to last one night, as you can size the array to operate your loads even on cloudy days.

2 is not enough. 4kW seems to be the maximum potential drain from the battery. That wouldn't power an oven… let alone anything else at the same time. 4kW inverters seem to be around the $1000 mark… but they don't seem to increase linearly (10kW inverter $4000 for example). Of course you could go totally off-grid, but the cost isn't going to be just $7k… it's likely to be at least $15-20k by the time you get everythin…

> At that price, you could've bought a larger capacity deep-cycle storage solution already readily available on the market with batteries that will last 20+ years.

Citation? Deep cycle lead acid batteries have a maximum life expectancy of 5-8 years, even if aggressively managed.

Re: Tesla Energy

#99

Post by Zombieball »

SCAQTony wrote: post #80
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people (like me) are simply unwilling to keep using carbon-based sources of energy. At some point it just feels awful to be contributing to such a terrible problem. I'm counting the days till I can sell my worn out petrol car and get an electric car. If I had a home and dollars, I'd want one of these batteries.

Batteries are not clean; lithium mines are one ugly slight and recycling is difficult: http://whenonearth.net/awe-inspiring-aerial-images-worlds-me... In my clueless opinion these batteries should be used strategically in places where solar, wind, and hydro power are unavailable.

Yes the real breakthrough tech needed is a new battery! Which hopefully Tesla is on track to develop,because as is, electric cars are just not scalable.

Re: Tesla Energy

#100

Post by toomuchtodo »

bhauer wrote: post #30

I have four rack-mount uninterruptible power supplies that provide battery backup to my workstations and servers in my house. My curiosity here is whether this Tesla battery pack will obviate those UPSs, providing automatic and immediate in-line switching to battery whenever there is an interruption. That alone would be compelling at this price. Edit: Incidentally, when I submit the reservation form, there is no conf…

That would be determined by the inverter, not the batteries. And yes, almost all grid-tie inverters will serve your load with a switching time fast enough that computer equipment would continue running.
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