Want a steady income? There's an app for that • Hacker News Board

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#31

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:28 PM UTC

I wanted to really hate this, but it sounds like a really interesting idea.

It seems like it would either be very capital intensive, or it's going to need to operate like a bank. Also, folks in these situations tend to be very transient and have fluctuating income. How do you establish an adequate virtual salary when the terms of the person's employment change?

Forget about massage people -- they are a bad example because two or three customers may make for a windfall-like experience. How about a person who works at the Gap or BestBuy? You might get 35 hours one week, 20 the next, then 18 for a month.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#32

Post by joshdance » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:33 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #16

preinheimer wrote: post #6

tl;dr App called "even" allows people with incredibly variable income (case study is on a massage therapist, lots of money one week, little the next) to even out their income. They evaluate their income history, then offer a stabilized value, say $380/week. Weeks they make more, the application takes it and puts it aside. Weeks they make less, it either pulls it in from a reserve, or an instant loan is made. Costs us…

So its a very basic personal economy management tool that automatically takes loan and restrict withdraws. Sound risky.

Not nearly as risky as using a payday loan.

If you have someone you could borrow $500 from you are not the target market for this app.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#33

Post by joshdance » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:34 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #31

I wanted to really hate this, but it sounds like a really interesting idea. It seems like it would either be very capital intensive, or it's going to need to operate like a bank. Also, folks in these situations tend to be very transient and have fluctuating income. How do you establish an adequate virtual salary when the terms of the person's employment change? Forget about massage people -- they are a bad example be…

They probably will look at the average of your hours across several months. Trial and error. Should be interesting.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#34

Post by icebraining » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:34 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #29

qzcx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the risk you are referring to? On the surface it sounds like a decent app for someone who lacks financial skills.

Making automatic loans sound very similar to sms loans, which is a common cause for people falling into incurable debt. It mean less insight and less responsibility, targeted to those who lack financial skills. That could make things better in theory, or things much much worse if the incentives are to get people to take unnecessary and expensive loans.

They say they aren't loans, but credits. It's not clear that you actually become indebted to them.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#35

Post by rhizome » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:35 PM UTC

mhuffman wrote: post #12

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet hates people who don't run javascript.

In this particular case, even moreso. It wants Javascript to to do the job of CSS and how!

Very common. My assumption is that frontend wears the pants in these companies and tells backend just to provide barebones with (many times partial) content and structural ULs for menus and related stories.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#36

Post by socialbullets » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

Its kind of marketing tactic? Spend some dollars to get viral!

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#37

Post by jkaunisv1 » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

jklein11 wrote: post #24

This interest free loan makes it VERY susceptible to fraud or abuse. Lets consider for example, a technology contractor, making $120,000 a year from various contracting jobs. The contractor could sign up for Even, and then retire, collecting a $2500 "paycheck boost" interest free. I think this idea has a lot of value, but their current business model can't be profitable.

It sounds like the signup process will be fairly high-touch, to evaluate whether they're a customer Even wants. Given that this involves a fairly complete opening of the kimono, I doubt Even would let someone who makes $120k/year sign up.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#38

Post by mrsteveman1 » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

jklein11 wrote: post #24

This interest free loan makes it VERY susceptible to fraud or abuse. Lets consider for example, a technology contractor, making $120,000 a year from various contracting jobs. The contractor could sign up for Even, and then retire, collecting a $2500 "paycheck boost" interest free. I think this idea has a lot of value, but their current business model can't be profitable.

The interest free part of course limits them from generating profit directly that way, but alternate revenue models are certainly possible on top of the $3/week users have to pay on a continuous basis.

> The contractor could sign up for Even, and then retire, collecting a $2500 "paycheck boost" interest free.

I'm not sure how things play out legally with them claiming to not be a lender, but I doubt the Even team hasn't considered something so basic as how to recover money they've "credited" to someone's account if the income they see drops to zero and stays that way.

In cases of outright fraud the person wouldn't just be risking collections or a court judgement to recover the money, they'd probably be facing criminal charges.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#39

Post by yawz » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

qzcx wrote: post #21

preinheimer wrote: post #6

tl;dr App called "even" allows people with incredibly variable income (case study is on a massage therapist, lots of money one week, little the next) to even out their income. They evaluate their income history, then offer a stabilized value, say $380/week. Weeks they make more, the application takes it and puts it aside. Weeks they make less, it either pulls it in from a reserve, or an instant loan is made. Costs us…

For once I wished I came to the comments before reading. It was an interesting article, but it is definitely full of fluff

Exactly my thoughts :/.

Re: Want a steady income? There's an app for that

#40

Post by VikingCoder » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #14

The article opens with the story of Heather Jacobs, a masseuse whose income is volatile, and it implies that she's a prototypical Even user. But she actually seems to be an undesirable user, from the company's point of view. It sounds as if she's struggling not just to budget but to earn enough money to pay for all her expenses, both recurring and unexpected. (She says she's often "desperate" around the end of the mo…

> She says she's often "desperate" around the end of the month

Depends on the definition of "often." If she's desperate at the end of the month 60, 70, or 80% of the time, you're clearly right.

If she's desperate 40, 30, or 20% of the time, then I'd say she might be the perfect user that Even should try to attract. (As long as the extra $156 a year doesn't push her over 50.0% of the time!)

> What happens if I have a surplus in my Even account (which the article says is kept in a savings account), and I run into a huge unexpected expense? What are my options for tapping into that surplus?

From their FAQ:

> Can I withdraw the money I've saved with Even? Yes, of course. It's your money. You can withdraw your Even savings by talking to your Evener in our app.