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Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

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Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#221

Post by rattray »

nutate wrote: post #206
ericmo wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would there be a F# equivalent to that Scala/Spark thing?

so I googled and saw this. one could say they're... looking into it... https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=170944&pp=...

extract:

> Inspired by Spark, we are building OneNet, a distributed functional programming platform based on F# that allows programmer to build distributed system at >3x productivity. OneNet offer similar programming model and extensibility of Spark, but goes much beyond in distributed functional programming to offer additional capability and performance (e.g., in-memory sharing of instantiated object with concurrent operation, use of both managed code & unmanaged code in functional programming, use of model and/or key value store, multi cluster with EDGE + cloud, private + public cloud compute, use of GPGPU/FPGA in cluster)

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#222

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

zaszrespawned wrote: post #189
typish wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interesting is their F* language: http://fstar-lang.org/ "F* is a new higher order, effectful programming language (like ML) designed with program verification in mind. Its type system is based on a core that resembles System Fω (hence the name), but is extended with dependent types, refined monadic effects, refinement types, and higher kinds. Together, these features allow expressing precise and compact specifi…

I'm going to write a package manager and call it F* ck

There's already a mocking lib called Foq: http://trelford.com/blog/post/fstestlang.aspx

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#223

Post by scaladdin »

nutate wrote: post #28

F# is a real breath of fresh air in comparison to something like Scala. It's direct ML heritage really shows, also just diving in with an IDE (like Xamarin, or I suppose Visual Studio) is super easy. I see it as the future of pop-functional programming. For example look at the way it handles type inference w/ JSON parsing. Compare that to what you have to do to parse JSON in Scala. It's subtle, but a major usability…

Learn Scala before you say something about it.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#224

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

tdicola wrote: post #31

This is interesting but is there any commitment to support it long term? I remember when Silverlight was supposed to be the savior that brought .NET to Mac and Linux, but that didn't last more than 5 years. Would be nice for MS to say they guarantee support for 10, 15, etc. years.

> Silverlight was supposed to be the savior that brought .NET to Mac and Linux

Silverlight was supposed to bring .NET to browsers on Mac and Linux. Someone1234's comment is IMHO correct and very astute - Silverlight wasn't all bad, but it solved the wrong problem.

On the other hand, this is all about bringing .Net to web servers on Mac and Linux. particularly Linux boxes and container in clouds. My experience may not be typical, but to me that's the right problem. The MS Azure team probably agrees.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#225

Post by igravious »

igravious wrote: post #12
bigdubs wrote: post #5

how long until i can `brew install dotnet`?

Wow yes, apt-get install dotnet anyone? Should Microsoft provide a few common platform install methods?

Turns out the command at the moment is

   dnvm install latest -r coreclr -u

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#226

Post by s_kilk »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #170
Someone1234 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm playing devil's advocate: But Silverlight was too little too late. It arrived right as Flash was effectively dying. I don't blame them for killing it, it was dead on arrival. I can explain the entire problem with Silverlight using two dates: - iPhone initial release: 29th of June 2007 - Silverlight initial release: 5th of September 2007 Now, we can argue if iOS killed Flash, but I think between iOS's lack of supp…

Silverlight was a half-assed, brain-dead attempt at trying to compete with Flash. It started out as a cool demo and then blew up into a role that didn't fit it well with insufficient support on the dev side. What it should have been was a competitor for AJAX/jQuery. What it turned into was just another video player browser plug-in.

Indeed, and yet we somehow ended up with a whole bunch of Line-of-Business desktop apps written in Silverlight. I did a brief stint at a windows-shop that made and maintained a variety of such apps.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#227

Post by bad_user »

smacktoward wrote: post #39
igravious wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow yes, apt-get install dotnet anyone? Should Microsoft provide a few common platform install methods?

It would be hilarious if it became easier to install .NET on Linux than it is to install Java.

How can it be easier than "apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk" ?

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#228

Post by pron »

arithmeticbird wrote: post #216
pron wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has a feature superset. True, although the most relevant difference is value types, which Java is getting, too. As to the rest, it's not about the number of features, but the quality of implementation. HotSpot's JIT and GCs are simply years ahead of the CLR, and HotSpot's next-gen JIT, Graal, is another tremendous leap forward. > The CLR is generally much faster to start up Compared to HotSpot, yes (but, like yo…

Graal/Truffle looks lot like DLR. Are they similiar ?

I assume their purpose is similar, but they are really a framework for building very sophisticated JITs -- much more than HotSpot's current optimizing JIT, which is state-of-the-art -- with user-controlled code generation. The CLR has a very primitive JIT to begin with. So while the purpose might be similar, Graal/Truffle represent the future of JITs, while DLR is just a framework that helps implementing dynamic languages for the CLR.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#229

Post by pron »

nbevans wrote: post #167
pron wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The JVM is much more sophisticated than the CLR. Its GCs and JIT are many, many years ahead of the CLR's.

That really isn't true. Perhaps 5 years ago it was but not now.

Now more than ever. HotSpot has undergone some revolutionary changes in the past few years -- from the G1 GC through tiered optimizing compilation and all the way to Java Flight Recorder -- while the CLR mostly added some user-facing features with little internal progress other than RyuJIT, which is maybe comparable to HotSpot's C2 JIT circa 2005 or so. Not to mention the awesome work done on Graal now, HotSpot's next-gen JIT, which is another very big leap forward.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#230

Post by mike_hearn »

coldtea wrote: post #84
guard-of-terra wrote: post #33

They mercifully waited until Java caught up a bit with version 8. Seriously, they could have fair chance, C# was so much better, but today it's still quite better but java is proven and has more libs.

Java, with Oracle at the wheel, is not going anywhere. They've added closures in 8, big deal. C# is centuries ahead of Java 8, and with even more to come faster. And I'm saying that as an old Java dev (for 8 years up until 2008 or so) who have only dabbled in C#.

Yeah, but a lot of the features they're adding or just talking about adding to C# are already in more modern JVM languages like Kotlin / Scala / Ceylon.

Kotlin in particular has quite a lot of the things like people like in C# (no full equivalent to linq though), and some things that are only pencilled in tentatively for the version of C# after next, like full nullability in the type system. And you can convert Java files to Kotlin with a single keypress, and your entire project still compiles, so there's a migration path for Java devs to Kotlin whereas there isn't one from Java to C#, really.

So yes the Java language moves slowly. However Oracle/Sun have barely been trying with the Java language: the bulk of their efforts are going into things like upgrading the standard library, better virtual machines, better support for more types of languages, better performance etc. I think they've pretty much bitten the bullet on letting other companies run with language research and development (like JetBrains)

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