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Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

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Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#211

Post by nutate »

iskander wrote: post #210
narrator wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scala is getting really interesting lately though with projects like Spark and SparkSQL. Spark takes a Scala AST tree and computes a plan on it in order to distribute it to a cluster of possibly thousands of nodes and then uses transformations on that plan, similar to how an SQL query optimizer works, to make the plan more efficient. The cluster compute benchmarks on it are crazy good. The only problem I have with Sc…

>Spark takes a Scala AST tree and computes a plan on it in order to distribute it to a cluster of possibly thousands of nodes Unless Spark has changed dramatically in the year since I used it, that's not really how it works. You lazily construct an expression graph of RDD operators but the actual Scala code (the functional payload of e.g. flatMap) doesn't get analyzed. Are you talking specifically about Spark SQL's c…

Yep!

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#212

Post by Gibbon1 »

snarfy wrote: post #100
coldtea wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java, with Oracle at the wheel, is not going anywhere. They've added closures in 8, big deal. C# is centuries ahead of Java 8, and with even more to come faster. And I'm saying that as an old Java dev (for 8 years up until 2008 or so) who have only dabbled in C#.

Yep, the problem with Java is Oracle.

I have to say, the two best things that happened to language design in the last fifteen years was.

1. Sun sued Microsoft for trying to improve Java. And so Gates went out and hired the guy that designed Turbo Pascal and Delphi to head up C# development. Because of course java and it's libraries are completely unsuitable for desktop development.

2. Oracle bought Sun and suddenly every company that absolutely cannot tolerate being Larry Ellison's b.. started investing in in-house programing languages. All those big companies have spent oodles of money on making sure Larry can't drink their milkshake.

NAnyway as a sometime C#/.net code slopper I welcome Microsoft tossing their hat in ring. Seriously Linux and iOS seriously needs these tools.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#213

Post by pmontra »

jgrowl wrote: post #21
sergiotapia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checkmate Stallman.

Not really. I'm a big fan of MIT style licenses, but it also means that Microsoft could at anytime start making proprietary updates. It could mean we could start adopting it and then at some point down the road they could discontinue the open version and start making closed features/updates. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pleased that this is the direction Microsoft is taking. I am just still very skeptical.

No. Having used the MIT license means that Company X can take .NET, make its own modifications, distribute them in binary form and don't share them back as source code with MS or anybody else. Apparently MS isn't afraid about it.

MS is the copyright holder so they could make proprietary updates whatever FOSS license they used, GPL v3 included.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#214

Post by Intermernet »

PuercoPop wrote: post #197

How long until I can develop with Unity game engine from Linux?

You can run Unity editor under Wine [1] and you can publish Unity games for Linux [2] but I assume native Unity editor support on Linux would require the use of a cross platform GUI library (Qt, GTK etc) as it probably relies on WinForms [3] which is only supported by mono (and I think OSX) up to .NET 2.0 [4].

[1]: http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php/Running_Unity_on_Linux_thr...

[2]: http://blogs.unity3d.com/2012/11/22/linux-publishing-in-unit...

[3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Forms

[4]: http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#215

Post by pmontra »

_sunshine_ wrote: post #72

Too little too late.

I don't think is too little but I'm sure they are late. Too late? Probably not but imagine if they did this 10 years ago, the impact it would have had on Java and many other ecosystems. I bet many of them would have been smaller and MS larger.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#216

Post by arithmeticbird »

pron wrote: post #181
barrkel wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. The CLR has a different feature set to the JVM; or rather, it has a feature superset. If you run Java-like code on the CLR, I would expect it to not be as fast or have as high GC throughput as Hotspot, especially if the Java code has been tuned to Hotspot - there are particular fast paths for certain operations that kick in, where if your code is a little bit too far from the optimized idiom, yo…

> it has a feature superset. True, although the most relevant difference is value types, which Java is getting, too. As to the rest, it's not about the number of features, but the quality of implementation. HotSpot's JIT and GCs are simply years ahead of the CLR, and HotSpot's next-gen JIT, Graal, is another tremendous leap forward. > The CLR is generally much faster to start up Compared to HotSpot, yes (but, like yo…

Graal/Truffle looks lot like DLR. Are they similiar ?

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#218

Post by pbgodwin »

phkahler wrote: post #131
WDCDev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire runtime stack is open source. https://github.com/dotnet/corefx https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr

Right. Core. No Windows forms, so the only app I ever wrote for it will not work yet.

Windows Forms is only a subset of the framework. I don't think exposing Windows Forms as an open source GUI stack would be worth while. It's old and clunky compared to WPF and XAML.

Even without a open source GUI stack the open source .Net Runtime and Framework provide value to .Net developers like myself who enjoy C# (and the F# lovers too!) to develop on Linux, FreeBSD, and OS X with much less pain than in the past. Not fitting each and every scenario doesn't diminish its significance.

Re: Microsoft Launches Its .NET Distribution for Linux and Mac

#220

Post by Skinney »

ane wrote: post #205
usef- wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of it as like the Java runtime environment, but not terrible. What's terrible about the JVM/JRE? Many people complain about the language Java (conservative language, programmer culture of complexity...), or the web browser plugin for the JVM (security vulnerabilities, bad startup performance...), but I've generally heard good things about the JVM itself.

The JVM type system uses type erasure (which means that any generic type Blah becomes Blah at runtime), so you can't instantiate types based on generics at runtime. In C# it is valid to do "T foo = new T();" and because of reified generics, this works. You can't overload functions based on their generic type ("Foo(List ...) and Foo(List ...)" on the JVM (the bit gets erased!). This was done to preserve binary backwar…

Technically, JVM doesn't have a type system, last I checked. Which is why Java (the language) uses type erasure. CLR does have a type system, but this also makes certain things harder to implement which is why, i think, Scala stopped working on their CLR compiler.

The JVM was also designed as a language agnostic VM, which is why they stabilized their bytecode specification early on. There are certain things you can do in bytecode which cannot be done in Java for instance.

Your criticism on the lack of user-defined value-types is valid, which they are working on for JVM 10. This is agreeably late, but better late than never.

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