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Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

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Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some HN'ers may not recall Microsoft's "sleeping giant awakes" moment with the Internet in the 90's. Speaking of tidal waves, hang on to your surfboards, it's going to be big and fast. http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/07/internet-tidal-wave.htm...

Tim Cook's too busy with Jonathan Ive and Angela Ahrendts, turning Apple into a luxury goods company, to even know what just hit him. Slowly but surely the best developers are going to leave the Mac platform leaving only consulting body-shops and corporates on iOS. Developing for the Mac and iOS is miserable. It wasn't always that way, but it is now. Developers* are sick of proprietary stacks, from the language (Swif…

If you think $99 is expensive just wait until you have to buy your first copy of MSDN.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#372

A quick look at the docs and it doesn't yet support extensibility/plugins, though they say in the FAQ that they are working out a plan for that. Right now there is an external task runner that exposes the file name of the current buffer and some other data. I look forward to seeing what they do on the plugin front. And hopefully they will be able to upstream performance changes to Electron and Atom and hopefully more…

Dang, was hoping this would make plugins for VS easier. I have to write a plugin for every release of Visual Studio currently.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#373
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows 10 reflects the strategic decisions embodied in Vista Hope you mean "embodied in Windows 8". I still remember the day I replaced my Vista PC with one running Windows 7, and wondering why the OS was booting so fast. I doubt "Vista" was strategic in any way, more incompetent management, but would agree "Windows 8" had strategic considerations behind it.

Vista broke with DOS and 16bit code. It elevated security. It required better hardware. It moved x64 toward the mainstream. The architecture of the OS was brought forward a decade. Tick. Windows 7 was a refinement of Vista. Tock. Windows 8 was a new interface and a step toward multi platform, e.g. ARM. Tick. Windows 10 is a full on multiplatform assault. Tock. Running a big company is nontrivial. Microsoft's manageme…

Pretty sure that "breaking with DOS" has already been the case since NT.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#374
They should just rename it "Code", visual studio inevitably brings memories of "bad M$". This is going to be a good trojan horse to lure developers into the microsoft platforms now with windows 10 and all, esp. as OSX developers are getting tired working with 80s technologies.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#375

The description says it's lightweight, but on my machine it uses over 200 MB of RAM with no files open, and appears to be a Chromium-based thing, much like Atom (as others pointed out, it's based on Electron). Meanwhile, Sublime Text is using less than 100 MB of RAM with dozens of files open, some of them quite big. Visual Studio tends to use less memory than this, too. If "the language services [Microsoft] built for…

On my machine with no files open it's at ~80-85MB RAM, VS2012 is at 500MB with nothing open. Not sure why 200MB is of any consequence unless you're in a third world country. 8GB of RAM is ~$50.

Virtual machines, yo.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#376
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their docs: https://code.visualstudio.com/Docs Architecturally, Visual Studio Code combines the best of web, native, and language-specific technologies. Using the GitHub Electron Shell, Code combines web technologies such as JavaScript and Node.js with the speed and flexibility of native apps. Code uses a newer, faster version of the same industrial-strength HTML-based editor that has powered the “Monaco” cloud…

The Electron Shell was previously known as the Atom Shell. So part of it is Atom work.

Fair point. I wanted to clarify the difference since "built on Atom" has a different meaning to me than "using the GitHub Electron shell". The first sounds like an extension to Atom and the second sounds like a whole new app.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vista broke with DOS and 16bit code. It elevated security. It required better hardware. It moved x64 toward the mainstream. The architecture of the OS was brought forward a decade. Tick. Windows 7 was a refinement of Vista. Tock. Windows 8 was a new interface and a step toward multi platform, e.g. ARM. Tick. Windows 10 is a full on multiplatform assault. Tock. Running a big company is nontrivial. Microsoft's manageme…

Pretty sure that "breaking with DOS" has already been the case since NT.

Depends of the definition of breaking with DOS.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#378
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panic and OmniGroup were big 10 years ago. The fact that nobody has appeared on the scene, innovated and become a name that you or I can quote is quite telling. Where is the new blood? I personally know many long-time Mac developers who have sold their products to others to maintain, or have quietly slipped away and let sales slide. The 30% fee is not an industry standard that was debated and researched and rationali…

It's an "arbitrary" number in the sense that it is the revers of the previous industry standard in the mobile space which was 70/30 in favor of the Carrier. Often times developers would get less than %30 of the revenue for their products. And they had many more hoops to jump thru to get to the market, could only even get a meeting to try and get on mobile devices if they were already a large company, and had to work…

The Internet democratized the entire software industry by allowing developers to sell direct to customers. You would no longer have to beg CompUSA to carry your boxed software in store. Before the rise of the App Stores, you could use Kagi or eSellerate to sell your software for 8-12%, or you could use PayPal, WorldPay, 2Checkout for 2-4%. Things are even cheaper and easier now with Braintree, Stripe, etc.

Apple charges 30% because they can, just like how CompUSA could charge whatever they wanted and make you pay for boxing and associated costs, because the software you spent a year writing cannot be sold anywhere else except on their platform. And if you want to sell by yourself on the Mac, without using the Mac App Store, you are a second class citizen because certain APIs like the iCloud SDK are not available to you.

If the $99 is a nominal amount, why even charge it? Why $99 and not $49? Or $199? Again, it's a number they came up with which they felt a certain demographic, let's say teenage programmers could afford, or younger kids could get their parents to pay for. I'm open to better reasons if you have one.

Being experienced in many languages does not make one a good programmer. You can be the jack of all trades and master of none. You think someone can just pick up C++ in a few weeks and become an "expert"? It takes years to become proficient in not only a single language but it's associated tooling and ecosystem.

I have no doubt that there are many developers out there who have spent years of effort learning Apple's proprietary stack and are now regretting it and kicking themselves because a decade has passed and Apple, as a friend to developers, has regressed and gone backwards.

Finally, Cocoa is a nice enough API, but have you ever had a problem and then tried to resolve it? Good luck going to the sign-in Apple developer forums where everyone shouts "ssh, we can't talk about it, it's under NDA" or having to file a bug report on Radar where nobody even responds and when they do it's to say it's a duplicate bug filing or, or opening a DTS incident and having the person say "Yep, it's a bug on our end, not sure when it will be fixed, in the mean time try a workaround". How is this better than having an open roadmap with discussion in public forums regarding language/SDK features, bugs, fixes etc?

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#379
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies use "open source" or simply "open" in a way that isn't compatible with the open source definition. This is known as open washing. A good, non-Microsoft example is Epic Games and Unreal Tournament 4. They talk a lot about being "open", but the source code and assets are all proprietary.

Neither Epic (I've contributed to UE) or Microsoft assert their products are Open Source, merely 'open'.

And they do that explicitly to confuse people. What they do isn't open, it's smoke and mirrors.

Re: Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platform Code Editor

#380

If anyone needs it (since Microsoft didn't supply it) I made an installer for Visual Studio Code Linux. The installer grabs the archive, puts things where they go, and makes sure you have the nice shiny icon that it ships with. http://www.thepowerbase.com/2015/04/install-visual-studio-co...

Thank you. That worked really well.
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