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Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

blogs.technet.com

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Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#101

Post by squeaky-clean »

towelguy wrote: post #32
cwyers wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/chocolatey/a8WdEoF-M... > What does this mean for Chocolatey? More awesome. More security. More better. Chocolatey is going nowhere, OneGet is a core API that enables package managers to hook in and take advantage of Windows components easier. > The best understanding I have is that OneGet is shipping with a prototype plugin compatible with Chocolatey. Right now this means that…

So Chocolatey is gonna use OneGet in the back? I was thinking it would be a package provider for OneGet instead.

I don't know much about how this works, but it looks like that's exactly it.

https://github.com/OneGet/ChocolateyProvider

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#102

Post by noblethrasher »

akulbe wrote: post #98
Someone1234 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Server needs to restart at MOST once a month ("patch tuesday"). If I look at a 2012 Core server, it hasn't even restarted nearly that often in the past year. In fact 9 times in 12 months. Plus I can schedule this restart at any hour, on any day, I wish. And do. For example I restart mine on Thursday morning at 1 am. If that really makes Windows Server "unsuitable for servers" then your downtime requirements m…

Once a month is way too often. Even if your downtime requirements are "so high", once a month is ridiculous. For the sake of this example, let's assume you have customers that depend on your server being up, for the product/service they're paying you for. Tell the customers that you plan on rebooting once a month, and see how they feel about it.

A server is just a name. Just because a host machine needs to go down doesn't mean that the "server" has to go down.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#103

Post by Someone1234 »

akulbe wrote: post #98
Someone1234 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Server needs to restart at MOST once a month ("patch tuesday"). If I look at a 2012 Core server, it hasn't even restarted nearly that often in the past year. In fact 9 times in 12 months. Plus I can schedule this restart at any hour, on any day, I wish. And do. For example I restart mine on Thursday morning at 1 am. If that really makes Windows Server "unsuitable for servers" then your downtime requirements m…

Once a month is way too often. Even if your downtime requirements are "so high", once a month is ridiculous. For the sake of this example, let's assume you have customers that depend on your server being up, for the product/service they're paying you for. Tell the customers that you plan on rebooting once a month, and see how they feel about it.

In that scenario I'd never have just a single server, be it Linux, Windows, BSD, or anything else.

Being in a situation where you're completely unable to restart a machine without losing money, is being in a situation where you're living on a knife edge regardless. A single hardware failure and you're in deep trouble.

I've been in exactly that situation (the entire company rested on a single Ubuntu server), it was really unpleasant and management didn't do a thing about it until we started getting sector errors which the RAID controller's error handling was struggling to cope with (after that incident and the downtime, management shelled out for four physical boxes, a SAN, VMWare licenses, and a setup with 15 minute rollbacks and dynamic migrations if a physical server died).

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#105

Post by Goladus »

pjc50 wrote: post #38
igravious wrote: post #6

I recently blogged about the Linux world needing something like this. http://leto.electropoiesis.org/propaganda/plugins-and-packag... I hate having to individually update my Wordpress install, my Rubies, my system packages, my IDE (be it Eclipse or Android Studio), a separate TeXLive install from the OS packages, even Vim now has its own package management with Pathogen... There must be some way to _unify_ this proli…

It's a disaster. The proper way to do it is distro packages, but for some reason every language, framework, ecosystem and individual developer wants to reinvent this particular wheel. I really don't understand why.

It's because individual tools usually don't want to be tied to assumptions made by one particular distro. I actively avoid using distro packages for 3rd party development libraries and such, especially when a good tool for accessing upstream sources (eg pip) is available.

I use packages for certain tools and platforms, and libraries if I feel the library is really something I want to be a standard part of the system environment. For example, I am more likely to use the distro package of a python library (if available) if I'm planning to use the library for a system administration task than if I am planning to use it for application development. I'm also likely to use distro packages for things like apache, nginx, postfix, unless I have some case-specific reason not to.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#106

Post by whoopdedo »

bentcorner wrote: post #96
tomswartz07 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't see why they cant 'look ahead' to say; Oh- this update X depends on update Y, but it's going to be installed, so we could just add it in the queue anyway.

Or rather, slipstream future updates to current downloads. E.g., if you're installing component X that has patches A, B, C, then perhaps you should get customers to download component X that is already in a patched state.

What I always wonder, while twiddling my thumbs during the interminable upgrade-reboot-upgrade cycle, is how many of these these updates will be overwritten by a later update. Am I wasting my time downloading multiple versions of the same file?

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#108

Post by vetinari »

wldcordeiro wrote: post #42
pjc50 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a disaster. The proper way to do it is distro packages, but for some reason every language, framework, ecosystem and individual developer wants to reinvent this particular wheel. I really don't understand why.

Distro packages move slower than people would like so they create their own solution.

You know, it is still simpler to make your own deb or rpm, than entirely different package system.

It is more of a case, that these different package systems were introduced on platform that lacks native one. Then, by combination of laziness/not wanting to build another package and recycling the already built binaries, they got a traction on linux systems too.

And there is a reason, why distro packages move slower - people having that deployed in production do not like breaking changes. If you want bleeding edge packages, use bleeding edge repos.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#109

Post by [deleted] »

tomswartz07 wrote: post #26

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

[deleted]

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#110

Post by jackmaney »

tomswartz07 wrote: post #26

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

Remember the Windows 95 days?

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