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Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

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Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#111
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charts, not maps ;)

You got me curious. Can you explain? Etymologically there's no good word for map (mappa meant napkin, charta meant a sheet of paper) but 'tabula' was used in Classical times.

http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/learn_diff_map_chart....

Aeronautical charts extrapolate from this because being in command of an aircraft is really just commanding a different kind of vessel. Port, starboard, manifest, fix, captain, first officer, and hull are all valid aviation terms, for example, with roots in the sea. A chart is not a map.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The pilot came on and said that his first mate’s iPad powered down unexpectedly, and his had too, and that the entire 737 fleet on American had experienced the same behavior. user mode programs causing power down is not an app bug

"Going blank" is different from "Power down" (I suspect iPads are very rarely, if not never, powered down 100%) Of course, from the point of view of "can't be used" it is the same. Now, why would Jepessen be doing something "funny" and powering down iPads is the answer I want to hear.

You've never heard a user say "power off" or "die" or "shut down" when an app crashed?

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#113
post #36

Just a wild guess: Could the enterprise in-house code signing certificate have expired? That would lock out the app. Imagine that happening mid-flight! (The iOS enterprise in-house code signing certificates, which only Apple can issue, always seem to come with 1-2 year hard expiration dates)

> Imagine that happening mid-flight! Not a problem, really. FAA regulations require all sorts of backups and emergency procedures. Even my dad's little four-seat general aviation plane has backups for every critical instrument. This issue prevents you from taking off (out of caution), but if it happened in-flight everyone'd know what to do.

Normally you reach a decision on the kind of redundancy and technological diversity by looking at certain risks and then decide if you only need one, two of the same, or two or more of differently implemented/built devices using different methods of operation.

For (made up example, I don't know anything in particular about aviation, but know the general approach from working with controls for nuclear powerplants) navigation one might conclude that GPS and old-fashioned UHF radio navigation is technologically different enough that an event taking down one means of navigation (say, jamming of GPS at 1.5 GHz, spread spectrum, digital, ...) will not affect UHF radio (at analog modulation on a few hundred MHz). So one decides that you have GPS and UHF, displayed on different monitors/indicators, powered by separate power-busses in the airplane.

For paper documentation, they'll probably claim: Bring two binders with the procedures to the plane, store at different sides of the cockpit.

For iPads one might have decided that they must not be connected to any network while on the plane, so that data cannot be deleted from the pilot's and first officer's devices. But have they considered the "common cause failure" of two iPads, not being connected to any network, not communicating with each other, with full batteries, probably with passed selfchecks (checksums for stored data on the flash)... to really fail at the same time because of an expired certificate?

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#114
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many possible scenarios that are encountered in flight that there is no way to have them all memorized. There are certain "memory items" that a pilot must know, but many procedures for dealing with both routine and emergency problems require the non-flying pilot to pull out a quick-reference handbook or checklist to be sure everything is done in the proper order and nothing is overlooked. Even routine de…

A lot of newer aircraft have built in checklists now[0]. For a bunch of reasons (e.g. safety, automatic double-checking, and expedience). Yes, it would be non-optimal if an aircraft had an issue without a handbook, but assuming that communications haven't been lost, someone on the ground can easily read out items. [0] http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2006/april/i_ca...

...so what's the checklist to mitigate the situation "the monitor which normally displays the checklist on this airplane failed"... :-)

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#115
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because there aren't any such dangers. Nothing safety critical would have been entrusted to the iPad. The pilots would be able to deal with the problem with either ATC support (anything the pilots can read to each other, ATC can read to them) or backup papers. Yes, if you're on the ground, you won't be taking off without the stuff, but that's obvious when it can be fixed by the pilot getting out for a few minutes. Pe…

> Nothing safety critical would have been entrusted to the iPad. I'm afraid I must disagree here. The iPad is a replacement for a bunch of paper manuals and maps and charts which are the backups to the ones contained in the flight computers. So if your iPad doesn't work any more, you don't have a backup anymore and that is safety critical. http://www.cnet.com/news/american-airlines-pilots-to-use-ipa...

It is not safety critical. In the unlikely event of both flight computers failing (many aircraft carry a backup FMC/FMS, but even a single computer is far more reliable than anything made on HN), and the consumer iPad which is barely FAA approved as a backup not working, any pilot can land the aircraft with their eyes closed. You think reference materials for the aircraft are the only thing keeping you alive and everything is hopeless if the pilot loses his weight tables? They're specifically trained when they get type rated and have all of the important figures memorized. Not ideal, sure, but "not safe" is another ballgame.

EFBs have a long history in the cockpit. Charts are required to be carried by FAR, but honestly, a scheduled commercial flight genuinely needing to consult one in anger is very rare. That was the impetus to get the FAA to approve iPads for EFB use in the first place, I think, was pilots making the case that they're needed so infrequently that an iPad is fine.

Threads like this make me wish there was more general awareness of what goes on in the cockpit, because I think it would go a long way toward assuaging unnecessary fear. Aviation is one of those rare regulation success stories where pretty much everything has been thought of.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#116
post #37

If you're curious, check out https://www.foreflight.com/ , it's available from the app store and is marketed towards GA pilots. I've used it with some success on a domestic US flight with the inflight WIFI. EDIT: I just checked ForeFlight had a version update on 4/27. I doubt American is using the same software on their tablets, but then again you never know.

From that link: "All backed by Fanatical Pilot Support™" Strikes me as a poor choice of words for their market.

Can you elaborate? Our customers tell us it's one of the best things we offer.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#117
post #36

Just a wild guess: Could the enterprise in-house code signing certificate have expired? That would lock out the app. Imagine that happening mid-flight! (The iOS enterprise in-house code signing certificates, which only Apple can issue, always seem to come with 1-2 year hard expiration dates)

The VPP certificates never expire though, right?

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll use yours: 1 gallon for 100 pounds of weight. If an olive is 6 grams (0.013 pounds), then 100 pounds need: 7,692 olives. For $1.7/gallon, this gives: .00022 dollars fuel cost per olive (or 77 times less than your estimation). For 500 million passengers with one olive less, we got: 500 million less olives x 0.00022 = $110,000 in savings. Taken from another angle, 300 passengers * 0.00022 savings per olive/passeng…

"or 77 times less than your estimation" Your estimate and mine are almost the same. 0.017 cents is $0.00017 is close to $0.00022. The difference is because I did some heavy intermediate rounding, what with olive weight being highly approximate to begin with. You're right that in relative terms, the savings is tiny. But absolute numbers count as well. If it saves $40,000/year then that means one full-time employee can…

>Your estimate and mine are almost the same. 0.017 cents is close to $0.00022

Ugh, yeah. 0.00017 and 0.00022 are indeed the same (for our level of accuracy), I just had not seen the "cents" and thought your 0.017 value was in $.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#119
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that link: "All backed by Fanatical Pilot Support™" Strikes me as a poor choice of words for their market.

Can you elaborate? Our customers tell us it's one of the best things we offer.

I think (s)he means the word "fanatic" has negative connotations, post 9/11.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"or 77 times less than your estimation" Your estimate and mine are almost the same. 0.017 cents is $0.00017 is close to $0.00022. The difference is because I did some heavy intermediate rounding, what with olive weight being highly approximate to begin with. You're right that in relative terms, the savings is tiny. But absolute numbers count as well. If it saves $40,000/year then that means one full-time employee can…

> Your estimate and mine are almost the same. 0.017 cents is close to $0.00022 Ugh, yeah. 0.00017 and 0.00022 are indeed the same (for our level of accuracy), I just had not seen the "cents" and thought your 0.017 value was in $.

That's probably a good lesson in why one (i.e. me) shouldn't switch units in the middle of something.
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