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Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

blogs.technet.com

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Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#51

Post by Goladus »

outworlder wrote: post #23

Oh, wow. Please, can I get a decent command line now?

I use cygwin. I run cygwinsshd on localhost:22 and use Putty for my client.

A lot of windows-specific gui commands won't work through the ssh layer, but will if you run the cygwin bash shell directly. (Maybe there's some way to get them to work over SSH but I have never had reason to try and figure it out).

    $ which nmap.exe
    /cygdrive/c/Program Files/Nmap/nmap.exe
    
    $ nmap.exe -PN -p 80,443 news.ycombinator.com | grep tcp
    80/tcp  open  http
    443/tcp open  https
    
    $ which ipconfig
    /cygdrive/c/Windows/system32/ipconfig
    
    $ where ipconfig
    C:\Windows\System32\ipconfig.exe
    
    $ where which
    C:\cygwin\bin\which.exe
    
    $ which where
    /cygdrive/c/Windows/system32/where
    
    $ ipconfig /all | grep Physical
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [redacted]
    
    $ reg query 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\GOG.com\' /s | head
    
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\GOG.com
        DefaultPackPath    REG_SZ    F:\
        DesktopIcon    REG_SZ    OFF
    
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\GOG.com\Games
    
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\GOG.com\Games\1207666383
        PATH    REG_SZ    F:\Star Wars - X-Wing (1993)
        GUID    REG_SZ    {F014338D-42E5-4DFC-BE77-F8E52BD998D5}

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#52

Post by sz4kerto »

tomswartz07 wrote: post #26

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

That's exactly what they're trying to do with the new app model.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#53

Post by evilduck »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #44
lmedinas wrote: post #41

Windows badly needs this to be a general Development OS. Lot's of developers in the last years run away from Windows to OSX and Linux because of this. Without Visual Studio, which installs the C++ and .Net dev env, it's a pain to install anything which works out of the box in Windows. Example: Perl or Python both have an installer but you have to update the system PATH, the console sucks so you can never use it, no s…

>> "Without Visual Studio, which installs the C++ and .Net dev env, it's a pain to install anything which works out of the box in Windows." On Mac don't you need to installed the Xcode command line tools before being able to do most dev stuff?

That's the easiest way, but not the only way. Likewise, on Ubuntu you also often need build-essentials and various other dev libs manually installed.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#54

Post by mrpippy »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #44
lmedinas wrote: post #41

Windows badly needs this to be a general Development OS. Lot's of developers in the last years run away from Windows to OSX and Linux because of this. Without Visual Studio, which installs the C++ and .Net dev env, it's a pain to install anything which works out of the box in Windows. Example: Perl or Python both have an installer but you have to update the system PATH, the console sucks so you can never use it, no s…

>> "Without Visual Studio, which installs the C++ and .Net dev env, it's a pain to install anything which works out of the box in Windows." On Mac don't you need to installed the Xcode command line tools before being able to do most dev stuff?

Which can be done by running 'clang' from a terminal. And if you want the full Xcode, install from the App Store with just an Apple ID needed, again for free.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#55

Post by nswanberg »

tomswartz07 wrote: post #26

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

Solving this is one of Matt Wrock's goals with Boxstarter. I've been experimenting with it recently and found it quite nice.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#56

Post by Macha »

Goladus wrote: post #51
outworlder wrote: post #23

Oh, wow. Please, can I get a decent command line now?

I use cygwin. I run cygwinsshd on localhost:22 and use Putty for my client. A lot of windows-specific gui commands won't work through the ssh layer, but will if you run the cygwin bash shell directly. (Maybe there's some way to get them to work over SSH but I have never had reason to try and figure it out). $ which nmap.exe /cygdrive/c/Program Files/Nmap/nmap.exe $ nmap.exe -PN -p 80,443 news.ycombinator.com | grep t…

Why Putty over mintty? mintty is a fork of PuTTY's UI for local use, and is the default in cygwin these days.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#57

Post by level »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #50
tomswartz07 wrote: post #26

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

>restart This isn't going to happen. MS is tied deeply into restarting due to how it loads libraries and other issues. Unless they write a new OS from scratch and give up on legacy compatibility, well, don't hold your breath.

I don't even mind the multiple restarts, the part that bothers me is that I have to babysit Windows Update as soon as my machine finishes restarting, tell it to get updates, tell it to install now, and then have it restart again. If Windows Update could collect all the update packages, and I could leave it alone for 20 minutes and come back to a fully updated system, that would be fantastic.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#58

Post by theandrewbailey »

lmedinas wrote: post #41

Windows badly needs this to be a general Development OS. Lot's of developers in the last years run away from Windows to OSX and Linux because of this. Without Visual Studio, which installs the C++ and .Net dev env, it's a pain to install anything which works out of the box in Windows. Example: Perl or Python both have an installer but you have to update the system PATH, the console sucks so you can never use it, no s…

> Without Visual Studio, which installs the C++ and .Net dev env, it's a pain to install anything which works out of the box in Windows.

Depends on what you're working with. I don't have VS on my Windows machine at home, but everything tends to work out of the box. Granted, I see plenty of installers with the VS Runtime redistributable, but that's not proper VS.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#59

Post by wlesieutre »

sz4kerto wrote: post #52
tomswartz07 wrote: post #26

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

That's exactly what they're trying to do with the new app model.

I think he's referring to system updates, not just installed software.

My usual workflow for setting up a Windows machine goes like this:

  1. Install Windows
  2. Download updates
  3. Reboot
  4. Download updates
  5. Reboot
  ...
  28. Download updates
  29. Reboot
  30. Download updates
  31. Reboot
  32. Install software
It's not great. OS X has been doing cumulative updates from 10.x.0 to 10.x.current for what, a decade now?

MS is rebuilding a lot of essential utilities in their "modern" app framework (including the start menu), but as far as I know, the lower level system updates still get distributed the same way as before, and frequently have long chains of prerequisites.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#60

Post by integraton »

bkeroack wrote: post #24
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #16

Please give us something that doesn't require PowerShell, since PowerShell never just works. Just look at the ridiculous bullshit that you have to deal with when you want to use Chocolatey (from the Chocolatey install guide): Note: You must have your execution policy set to unrestricted (or at least in bypass) for this to work (Set-ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted). There have been reports that RemoteSigned is enough for…

> PowerShell never just works. That statement is a bit much. I agree the default execution policy is annoying, but can you blame MS for being a little overzealous given their history? Some aspects of Powershell are actually pretty nice. Ever want to use a real hashmap in bash for example? Or easy JSON construction/manipulation without hacks like jq? PS has all that.

> Ever want to...

That's because Bash is used to tie together separate programs that do the work. PowerShell, on the other hand, is a .NET shell and more equivalent to the shells in Python, Node, Ruby, the JVM, etc, all of which provide ways to work with JSON and many different data structures.

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