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Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

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Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#91

Post by Kurtz79 »

pmelendez wrote: post #83
Kurtz79 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anecdotal evidence against yours, I haven't experienced a single crash on my iPad(s) in three years.

My anecdotal evidence supports OP's and againts yours. My Ipad crashes more frequently with each iOS upgrade. My wife's Ipod touch is even more prone to crash that the Ipad. I just gave up with both iOS and Android (I gave the Ipad to my son). It turns out I only needed a phone and a kindle paperwhite after all.

That's great!

We already have three data points.

A couple of thousand more and our anecdotal evidence could turn into a factual one.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#92

Post by Someone1234 »

ams6110 wrote: post #69
wodenokoto wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More over, isn't this just a manual? I mean, for most normal situations, the pilots know what to do, so even if the backup also died, chances are pretty good that they would land without problems, I imagine.

There are so many possible scenarios that are encountered in flight that there is no way to have them all memorized. There are certain "memory items" that a pilot must know, but many procedures for dealing with both routine and emergency problems require the non-flying pilot to pull out a quick-reference handbook or checklist to be sure everything is done in the proper order and nothing is overlooked. Even routine de…

A lot of newer aircraft have built in checklists now[0]. For a bunch of reasons (e.g. safety, automatic double-checking, and expedience).

Yes, it would be non-optimal if an aircraft had an issue without a handbook, but assuming that communications haven't been lost, someone on the ground can easily read out items.

[0] http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2006/april/i_ca...

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#93

Post by msandford »

CHY872 wrote: post #72
duncanawoods wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Leaving cockpit a few minutes. The horror! For an airliner, yes, the horror. Why would you want to downplay the dangers of pilots losing access to their flight manuals?

because there aren't any such dangers. Nothing safety critical would have been entrusted to the iPad. The pilots would be able to deal with the problem with either ATC support (anything the pilots can read to each other, ATC can read to them) or backup papers. Yes, if you're on the ground, you won't be taking off without the stuff, but that's obvious when it can be fixed by the pilot getting out for a few minutes. Pe…

> Nothing safety critical would have been entrusted to the iPad.

I'm afraid I must disagree here. The iPad is a replacement for a bunch of paper manuals and maps and charts which are the backups to the ones contained in the flight computers. So if your iPad doesn't work any more, you don't have a backup anymore and that is safety critical.

http://www.cnet.com/news/american-airlines-pilots-to-use-ipa...

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#95

Post by ryanmarsh »

0x0 wrote: post #36

Just a wild guess: Could the enterprise in-house code signing certificate have expired? That would lock out the app. Imagine that happening mid-flight! (The iOS enterprise in-house code signing certificates, which only Apple can issue, always seem to come with 1-2 year hard expiration dates)

Nothing in AA IT would surprise me. I did some contracting there. Their technology groups are so horribly f'ed up. The only client I've had worse was the government.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#96

Post by mikeash »

ceejayoz wrote: post #49
0x0 wrote: post #36

Just a wild guess: Could the enterprise in-house code signing certificate have expired? That would lock out the app. Imagine that happening mid-flight! (The iOS enterprise in-house code signing certificates, which only Apple can issue, always seem to come with 1-2 year hard expiration dates)

> Imagine that happening mid-flight! Not a problem, really. FAA regulations require all sorts of backups and emergency procedures. Even my dad's little four-seat general aviation plane has backups for every critical instrument. This issue prevents you from taking off (out of caution), but if it happened in-flight everyone'd know what to do.

Your last sentence is key, and seems to be something that everybody forgets about. You have a great deal of redundancy so that a problem in the air doesn't get you killed. But the whole point of that redundancy is defeated if you're relying on it from the beginning of the flight. Therefore it's common, and reasonable, to have issues that wouldn't cause any trouble in the air, but which prevents you from flying to begin with.

Imagine if the speedometer in your car failed. You shouldn't drive it until you get it fixed, but it won't kill you if it happens while you're on the highway.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#97

Post by roywiggins »

ceejayoz wrote: post #59
jackweirdy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADS-B is unauthenticated, plenty of security people are terrified of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2uiLfXmaI

All the threats mentioned there - jamming, spoofing, impersonation, etc. - can already happen with the unencrypted radio calls it's supplementing. With a hundred dollars or so worth of radio, you can hop on your local airport's ATC frequency and hold the mic down, or pose as the controller.

I suppose the argument is, when there's a person in the loop it's easier to notice funny business. If someone hops on the ATC frequency, the odds are someone will notice more quickly.

When it's mediated by a computer, you tend to trust it as a magic box of truth- and injecting subtle errors is going to be easier with ADS-B than on a voice channel, isn't it?

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#99

Post by fathom108 »

CaptG wrote: post #37

If you're curious, check out https://www.foreflight.com/ , it's available from the app store and is marketed towards GA pilots. I've used it with some success on a domestic US flight with the inflight WIFI. EDIT: I just checked ForeFlight had a version update on 4/27. I doubt American is using the same software on their tablets, but then again you never know.

From that link: "All backed by Fanatical Pilot Support™"

Strikes me as a poor choice of words for their market.

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