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Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

qz.com

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Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#61

Post by ams6110 »

CaptG wrote: post #37

If you're curious, check out https://www.foreflight.com/ , it's available from the app store and is marketed towards GA pilots. I've used it with some success on a domestic US flight with the inflight WIFI. EDIT: I just checked ForeFlight had a version update on 4/27. I doubt American is using the same software on their tablets, but then again you never know.

Certification for GA and large jet commercial passenger service are two different things. GA pilots can and often do use various portable navigational and other devices that are in some ways more sophisticated than what commercial airliners have, but they are not certified for commercial use.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#62

Post by ithingsnoway »

imglorp wrote: post #58
ithingsnoway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is outrageous that flights could be stopped because of a reliance of shiny iThings and the software running on them. Paper versions do not run out of juice. There is a place for shiny tech, but the flight deck is not it. Paper worked, and we should go back to it.

Paper comprises an entire suitcase. Charts, airport docs, aircraft manuals, maint logs, regulations, etc etc. Updates are frequent and also paper. The fuel savings alone from not carrying the paper is substantial. As long as there's a backup tablet, it should be okay. If they get lost they can always call in for vectors. ref: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=124327

Didn't the backup tablet also experience issues in this case?

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#63

Post by adim86 »

Is it me or is this headline misleading. As in AA for one reason or the other has a faulty app that refuses to launch or crashes the iPad. How is this Apple's fault if you want to be fair. This is like saying 7 bakerys had to close down for the week because their HP desktop crashed , when really they did not upgrade their software. What happened to investigative reporting rather than clickbait?

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#64

Post by nodata »

CaptG wrote: post #37

If you're curious, check out https://www.foreflight.com/ , it's available from the app store and is marketed towards GA pilots. I've used it with some success on a domestic US flight with the inflight WIFI. EDIT: I just checked ForeFlight had a version update on 4/27. I doubt American is using the same software on their tablets, but then again you never know.

"The software and data that powers American’s iPad-based flight kits are provided by Jeppesen, a unit of Boeing Digital Aviation."

So not ForeFlight. Also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9457945.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#65

Post by k-mcgrady »

0x0 wrote: post #60
k-mcgrady wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope there isn't a guy sitting somewhere who accidentally rejected the certificate :) I think that also locks everyone out. If the iPad's all crashed though it seems unlikely. Although it's definitely something that could be easily missed.

Ah, but when you read stories like this, I wouldn't trust the reporter (or even the interviewee) to be 100% accurate. "All crashed" could mean anything from a dead battery to being PIN locked to failure to launch because of an expired code signing cert :P

Good point and definitely possible. In fact I've done it myself - switched computer rejected the old certificate and suddenly nobody could access the app. Fortunately at the time it was only a few people and a beta so not too big of a problem.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#66

Post by CHY872 »

ithingsnoway wrote: post #44
apalmer wrote: post #34

Kind of weird, there historically have been similar 'do it the old school way because its more reliable' fallbacks for other things in air transport. What happened to the planes that were mid flight when this bug occurred?

It is outrageous that flights could be stopped because of a reliance of shiny iThings and the software running on them. Paper versions do not run out of juice. There is a place for shiny tech, but the flight deck is not it. Paper worked, and we should go back to it.

Why? It saves a tonne of cash ($1.2 million per year), and has led to a few dozen flights delayed, ever.

It's wasteful to force the pilots to carry around 30lbs of paper which is out of date every few months, and which is not safety critical.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#67

Post by ceejayoz »

ithingsnoway wrote: post #44
apalmer wrote: post #34

Kind of weird, there historically have been similar 'do it the old school way because its more reliable' fallbacks for other things in air transport. What happened to the planes that were mid flight when this bug occurred?

It is outrageous that flights could be stopped because of a reliance of shiny iThings and the software running on them. Paper versions do not run out of juice. There is a place for shiny tech, but the flight deck is not it. Paper worked, and we should go back to it.

> Paper worked, and we should go back to it.

The article says pilots experienced "frequent injuries... from carrying heavy flight bags".

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#68

Post by maccard »

duncanawoods wrote: post #50
draugadrotten wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that the entire 737 fleet on American had experienced the same behavior. That seems to be inaccurate. American Airlines confirms "several dozen flights" which is probably less. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/29/apple-ipad... And the fix was available through nearest Wi-Fi. Leaving cockpit a few minutes. The horror! "In some cases, the flight has had to return to the gate to access a Wi-Fi connection…

>> Leaving cockpit a few minutes. The horror! For an airliner, yes, the horror. Why would you want to downplay the dangers of pilots losing access to their flight manuals?

> Why would you want to downplay the dangers of pilots losing access to their flight manuals?

If it happens at an actually critical time, they can have the ATC read the relevant sections to them.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#69

Post by ams6110 »

wodenokoto wrote: post #53
ceejayoz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine that happening mid-flight! Not a problem, really. FAA regulations require all sorts of backups and emergency procedures. Even my dad's little four-seat general aviation plane has backups for every critical instrument. This issue prevents you from taking off (out of caution), but if it happened in-flight everyone'd know what to do.

More over, isn't this just a manual? I mean, for most normal situations, the pilots know what to do, so even if the backup also died, chances are pretty good that they would land without problems, I imagine.

There are so many possible scenarios that are encountered in flight that there is no way to have them all memorized. There are certain "memory items" that a pilot must know, but many procedures for dealing with both routine and emergency problems require the non-flying pilot to pull out a quick-reference handbook or checklist to be sure everything is done in the proper order and nothing is overlooked. Even routine departures and landings follow a checklist.

Re: Some American Airlines planes are grounded because the pilots’ iPads crashed

#70

Post by rpmcb »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #56
wodenokoto wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More over, isn't this just a manual? I mean, for most normal situations, the pilots know what to do, so even if the backup also died, chances are pretty good that they would land without problems, I imagine.

I thought it was the flight plan.

The flight plan is programmed into the airplane's avionics, as well as on a printed hard copy in the cockpit. The app is supplemental. It can not be used as a primary navigation reference, per FAA regulations.
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