Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air • Hacker News Board

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#31

Post by jordanb » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

smhenderson wrote: post #17

mhurron wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the size of the Great Lakes, it wouldn't be that surprising that some bays or inlets would be clean while others were disgusting. I don't know about Lake Michigan, but I wouldn't really have advocated swimming in the parts of Lake Ontario I was around in the '80s.

I was living in Toronto in the 1990's and I wouldn't swim in Lake Ontario if you paid me. And anyway this is a seasonal effect brought on by a larger than usual ice content this past winter. If I read the article correctly this won't last long and run off from surrounding farms and industry will have the lake algae ridden and opaque before too long...

I have a photobook of Chicago that has a picture of north avenue beach in the 1960s with thousands of people on it.

I think a city's relationship with its waterfront has to do with what was built on land next to the water. In Toronto the lakefront was industrial until recently. In Chicago the industry was clustered along the river and the lakefront has consisted of parks and beaches for a century.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#32

Post by kijin » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 1:07 AM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #25

The descriptions of the shipwrecks pictured on that site all seem to be in water shallower than 15 feet. To make their point about how clear the water is, it might have been useful to show some shipwrecks that are deeper than a swimming pool.

It really boggles my mind that a 130-foot ship can "sink" in only 6-12 feet of water. (I know that 130' is the length, not the depth, but...) A tall guy could stand on the keel of that wreck and still keep his head above the surface on a calm day.

On the other hand, shallow water might be even more dangerous because every wave smashes your ship against the bottom.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#33

Post by mattgrice » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 2:26 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so quick to blaim run off without evidence that this is the main cause. Diving in the ocean in northern Europe you experience the same thing: you have a choice between 4 degrees C and clear water or 15 degrees C and murky green. Runoff isn't a significant cause of plankton blooming in the North Atlantic. Temperature is.

Still, it requires nitrogen to get an algae bloom, right? Has to come from somewhere.

Phosphorus is the limiting nutrient, not nitrogen. But yes, it's nearly all from ag and wastewater.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#34

Post by coin » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 2:32 AM UTC

-1 for disabling zoom. I'd love to see it closeup on my iPad, but the web authors have decided that this isn't permitted. Why do websites go out of their way to remove useful functionality?

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#35

Post by ryaniscool » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 3:17 AM UTC

Maybe they can finally find the wreckage of Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 2501

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Orient_Airlines_Fligh...

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#36

Post by ChrisPebble » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 3:27 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #13

craigyk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how true this is, but my mom used to live on Lake Michigan when she was ~7 and used to tell me how gross the lakes were before the Clean Water Act, and how amazing the turn-around. If so, it's a nice example for the jaded that government can do some things right.

Lake Michigan was fine in the 1980s (when I grew up swimming in it). Even during weather that would really churn things up the water was still fine. Another comment mentions Zebra mussels, which have made the lakes quite a bit clearer in recent years (but not necessarily to good effect).

Zebra mussels have had a noticeable effect on water clarity in Chicago harbors in the last ten years. When the light is right it's possible to see 20-30 feet down easily when the view was always previously occluded.

Aside from the detrimental effects on local species it also means that algae and weed blooms are common and it's not uncommon for harbors to be choked with weeds by August.

Not sure if all the current water clarity across the lake can be attributed to them but the change inshore has been rapid and remarkable.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#37

Post by EvanAnderson » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 3:35 AM UTC

ryanberg wrote: post #29

danans wrote: post #6

I went kayaking in Little Traverse Bay (an inlet of Lake Michigan) a few years back, and it is usually always that clear. It was pretty amazing to be swimming and boating in water as clear as the Caribbean in Michigan. Someone told me it is so clear because of all the springs that empty into the Bay.

I was born and raised in the Traverse City area. The Great Lakes have become remarkably clearer throughout the years. I was told that it was due to the invasive species of Zebra Mussels[1] which have no natural predators in the Great Lakes. As their population exploded, they have significantly increased the clarity of the water. -- [1] - http://www.noaa.gov/features/earthobs_0508/zebra.html

I didn't live there, but my grandparents did and my family summered there (on Long Lake) every year from the early 80's thru the last few years. I snorkels and later dove in Lake Michigan and surrounding connected and non-connected lakes. The water definitely got more clear in the 90's and 2000's to my unscientific eye.

It's beautiful country up there. Nothing much compares, to me, to northern lower-peninsula Michigan summers.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#38

Post by j_lev » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 3:43 AM UTC

coin wrote: post #34

-1 for disabling zoom. I'd love to see it closeup on my iPad, but the web authors have decided that this isn't permitted. Why do websites go out of their way to remove useful functionality?

Meanwhile I'm geeking out over the number of things Ghostery blocked on the site. 38 - that'd have to be a record.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#39

Post by kristianp » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 5:27 AM UTC

coin wrote: post #34

-1 for disabling zoom. I'd love to see it closeup on my iPad, but the web authors have decided that this isn't permitted. Why do websites go out of their way to remove useful functionality?

-1 for slightly scaling up the image on the desktop, so I can't see the whole height of each image.

Re: Lake Michigan Is So Clear Right Now Its Shipwrecks Are Visible from the Air

#40

Post by samcheng » Wed, Apr 29, 2015, 6:53 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #13

craigyk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how true this is, but my mom used to live on Lake Michigan when she was ~7 and used to tell me how gross the lakes were before the Clean Water Act, and how amazing the turn-around. If so, it's a nice example for the jaded that government can do some things right.

Lake Michigan was fine in the 1980s (when I grew up swimming in it). Even during weather that would really churn things up the water was still fine. Another comment mentions Zebra mussels, which have made the lakes quite a bit clearer in recent years (but not necessarily to good effect).

You swam in Lake Michigan regularly? I remember it being bracingly COLD, even on a hot summer day.

This was on the western (Wisconsin) shore of the lake, though, which may have been colder due to upwelling from the prevailing westerly winds.