Is interview process not enough? Also, I will only give references from people who will give me a good reference. What is the point?
Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
1–10 of 14 posts
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#2I suppose it's just that much more validation, one last-ditch-effort to reveal flaws behind the facade.
But you're right; who would offer up anything but a stellar reference?
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#3In some countries/cultures, letters of reference are handed out in a sealed envelope.
The interview process involves taking lots of weak signals (you can't tell much about a person by talking to them for ~30 minutes) and trying to take a hire/no hire decision. Every little thing contributes to this decision. When people give more importance to incorrect signals, you end up with a bias (which can end up reducing diversity in the work place).
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#4The purpose of providing references is to close the deal. It isn’t to find out if you are telling the truth about your dates of employment, verify if you have the proper skills or even assure the hiring authority he’s making the right decision to hire you -- though each reason contributes.
If a company is having difficulty deciding which of two individuals to make an offer to, references are usually the deciding factor. If more job seekers understood this, they wouldn’t view the phrase “references provided upon request” so casually.
http://www.jobdig.com/articles/843/The_Real_Purpose_of_Refer...
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#5I suppose it's just that much more validation, one last-ditch-effort to reveal flaws behind the facade. But you're right; who would offer up anything but a stellar reference?
When I have worked at places that required them, I looked at who they gave (didn't care what they said). Recent ex-boss is good -- boss from 15 years ago when you were an intern: troubling. I would not reject on this, but I might ask about it.
The best places I have worked don't ask for them and don't check them if you provide them.
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#6> Is interview process not enough?
Some people are frighteningly good at bluffing their way through things like interviews, through techniques like reading body language cues from the interviewer and telling them what those cues reveal they want to hear. (Jon Ronson's excellent book The Psychopath Test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopath_Test) profiles several people who mastered this kind of thing.) So it's useful to have ways to validate a candidate's bona fides that are external to the interview.
> I will only give references from people who will give me a good reference. What is the point?
Just the fact that you can rustle up two or three people who are willing to say nice things about you tells the employer something positive, namely that you have not spent your career burning every bridge after you crossed it. If you can't even get over that low hurdle, it provides cause to wonder if working with you is more trouble than it's worth, regardless of how sparkling your technical credentials are.
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#7I suppose it's just that much more validation, one last-ditch-effort to reveal flaws behind the facade. But you're right; who would offer up anything but a stellar reference?
You'd be surprised.
I worked at a shit company as their first data scientist. They later hired a boss for me whose references said he was very difficult to work with. It turns out that when even your references say you are very difficult to work with, you are, indeed, an asshole.
I left on bad terms after having a horrid relationship with the asshole and blaming the director of engineering for hiring him even after the warnings from references.
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#8The purpose of providing references is to close the deal. It isn’t to find out if you are telling the truth about your dates of employment, verify if you have the proper skills or even assure the hiring authority he’s making the right decision to hire you -- though each reason contributes. If a company is having difficulty deciding which of two individuals to make an offer to, references are usually the deciding fact…
Also, hopefully, to make sure you aren't a horror show to work with.
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#9It's actually surprisingly easy to get a 'good' reference to give honest feedback about your shortcomings as well as your strengths. This has worked about 90% of the time for me:
Me: So, how would you rate this candidate on a scale of 1-10?
Reference: Oh, around a 9.
Me: A 9? That's great! Tell me, why not a 10?
Reference: [... here's what you actually listen to here ...]
Sometimes it goes this way:
Me: So, how would you rate this candidate on a scale of 1-10?
Reference: Absolutely a 10, no doubt about it.
Me: Outstanding! But seriously, there's got to be something he's not perfect at...
Reference: [... again, the truth generally emerges here ...]
Once people have given you what they feel is a good reference, like a high score out of 10, they're generally fine with talking frankly.
In addition, if the role's really important, you don't stop with just the references they gave you - you note them and then you continue digging, especially if there's people they really should have given as a reference but didn't.
Re: Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
#10Same reason why you'd ask your new babysitter to provide references.
These of course could be fabricated but gives you an extra peace of mind.
And then of course you may actually call and speak to these people.